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Rafale and other european jets [English only]


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Not really, but Tornado are ageing...

 

Did you notice something a few years ago Typhoon fans said "everything is better" now they say everything will be better....

Heee hee 

 

you took my bait dont you  :oops:

 

well some indian posters like Sancho  do beleive that Typhoon would be able to induct Captor E with GaN module with EA capabilty by 2020  :huh:

 

due to delay in signing MMRCA deal  its better for india now to take Typhoon tranche 3A/B variant  with better radar capabilty with functional IRST which makes it  better on A/A capabilty with better active /passive detection capabilty & plus with good air to ground capabilty in close in air support for troops & SEAD missions both with better PGMS like spear & storm shadow

 

 

& he  beleive france should have partner india in developemnt of F3R which is for french requirement basically but rather joint 

development of MLU/F4 variant would have been better & realistic partnership for india & france both

 

but unfortunatley france wont give GaN tech at the moment to us  may be for MLU neither india IAF has requirement for EA/ESM version of rbe 2 aesa radar at the moment

 

but good news might be  Isreali PGMs would give us a tremondous boost in rafale  F3I  official designation of india rafale

 

after it's french forum nothing wrong to disclose such things

 

CHEERS 

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well some indian posters like Sancho  do beleive that Typhoon would be able to induct Captor E with GaN module with EA capabilty by 2020  :huh:

 

due to delay in signing MMRCA deal  its better for india now to take Typhoon tranche 3A/B variant  with better radar capabilty with functional IRST which makes it  better on A/A capabilty with better active /passive detection capabilty & plus with good air to ground capabilty in close in air support for troops & SEAD missions both with better PGMS like spear & storm shadow

 

& he  beleive france should have partner india in developemnt of F3R which is for french requirement basically but rather joint 

development of MLU/F4 variant would have been better & realistic partnership for india & france both

 

but unfortunatley france wont give GaN tech at the moment to us  may be for MLU neither india IAF has requirement for EA/ESM version of rbe 2 aesa radar at the moment

 

but good news might be  Isreali PGMs would give us a tremondous boost in rafale  F3I  official designation of india rafale

 

after it's french forum nothing wrong to disclose such things

 

CHEERS

 

Sancho doesn't want to understand that cooperation with India has to start after something has been signed. And during the negociation time we cannot stop the Rafale development ! It would be the same with Typhoon (except that Typhoon is generally late).

 

Typhoon better Radar capability has to be demonstrated. It's true that a bigger antenna make easier to reach good performance, but RBE2 AESA with 1050 T/R have the same performance than AN/APG-81  with 1400 T/R so it 's not obvious that E-Captor will outperforms the RBE2. Nobody knows how many T/R they will take, because it's possible to put more than 1500 but they try to reduce the cost!

For GaN it's the same story, there is no problem to use them but the cost is very high because there isn't civilian use and the demand is too low for production at low cost.

It's why we plane to use them first in SPECTRA at relatively short term and then in RBE2 AESA but only when the cost will decrease. Looking at the budget problems of Typhoon program I doubt a lot that they will be able to induct GaN before us. And the concept fit better with a small nose than with a larger one.

 

I don't think that Israelien PGM improves Rafale capabilities.

Modifié par Picdelamirand-oil
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  • 2 months later...

BHARAT CRAPNAD is back with a bang 

this time more fantasy stuff in his latest articleicon_lol.gif

here are some 


 
There are operational reasons as well why Rafale will be a liability. The IAF has always been wary of buying foreign aircraft accessible to its Pakistani counterpart. This was a reason for the rejection of F-16s as MMRCA given that they outfit the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) strike squadrons. Now consider this: Dassault is ****-a-hoop about the likely purchase by Qatar of some 66 Rafales. The Qatari Air Force (QAF) has traditionally been run by PAF pilots, with the understanding that these squadrons will switch to PAF use in any conflict with India. So, IAF Rafales will go up against Pakistani-flown Qatari Rafales that potentially will be better equipped and periodically upgraded with more sophisticated sensors, avionics, and weapons that Saudi Arabia will happily finance, as it did the $500 million deal for PAF’s F-16s and Pakistan’s acquisition of nuclear weapons and missile technologies from China. The Gulf regimes, after all, consider the Pakistan military their palace guard.
 
And, Rafales cannot be effectively used against China either. Why? Because, firstly, it will not survive sophisticated Chinese air defence; secondly, Dassault won’t allow the indigenous Brahmos supersonic cruise missile to take out targets inside China from standoff range to be integrated with it; and thirdly, because the Rafale is a compromised system for another reason.icon_rofl.gif Pakistan is the prime conduit for Western military, especially aerospace, technologies to China. A Qatari Rafale will be disassembled in Pakistan for Chinese engineers to scrutinise, or wing its way to a Chengdu Aircraft Industry Groupsite for its best features and technologies to be reverse-engineered and incorporated in Chinese combat aircraft, and otherwise permit the Chinese military to familiarise itself with its technical weaknesses and configure appropriate counter-measures and counter-tactics.icon_ohmygod.gif

http://www.newindianexpress.com/colu...cle2699390.ece

 

 


thats why B.CRAPNAD is so awesome in defence journalismicon_wink.gif

CHEERS

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I think this is just Public Relations and nothing else. Did someone told this guy Qatar has mirage 2000 too ? Isn't he worried either that Chinese J11 are very close to Indian SU30 MKI ?

 

Don't worry DrSomnath, we're pretty much used to this level of Rafale Bashing from biased people. The more they bash, the more biased they are, the more the people who read what they write, even those a bit biased, can see their blatant lies and attempts to "control the damage" induced by their biased bashing.

 

The best thing that could happen to IAF now is the Rafale. They know it, Modi knows it, Dassault's adversaries on the market know it.

 

They always acted this way against the Rafale : they ignored it, they laughed at it, then they fought it, then Rafale won.

 

...If this reminds you something. ;)

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I think this is just Public Relations and nothing else. Did someone told this guy Qatar has mirage 2000 too ? Isn't he worried either that Chinese J11 are very close to Indian SU30 MKI ?

 

Don't worry DrSomnath, we're pretty much used to this level of Rafale Bashing from biased people. The more they bash, the more biased they are, the more the people who read what they write, even those a bit biased, can see their blatant lies and attempts to "control the damage" induced by their biased bashing.

 

The best thing that could happen to IAF now is the Rafale. They know it, Modi knows it, Dassault's adversaries on the market know it.

 

They always acted this way against the Rafale : they ignored it, they laughed at it, then they fought it, then Rafale won.

 

...If this reminds you something. ;)

hehee

 

appropiate reply has already been posted   ami !

 

http://indiandefence.com/threads/terminate-the-rafale-deal.53203/#post-453164

 

CHEERS

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting fictious article from OSCAR from defence.pk

guys have a read 
HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions | Page 670
& continued here
Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions [Thread 2] | Page 52


now
for readers SD 10A is known to have HOJ feature i can post the source for that also 
so someone doubting how SD10a get a lock on tejas & destroyed it .
it can be also possible .
Jamming is a double edge sword it can save you from a missile & can get yourself killed by HOJ mode BVRAAM missile 

Both LCA & rafale currently have on board jamming system 

question LCA JINGOs like B.Crapnard would ask ??

Q-Is the author nuts or is paid by dassault group to write this article??
as how the heck rafale could save his A$$ from SD 10A & meanwhile LCA couldnt as both are having on board jamming????

ANS
Spectra's active jamming subsystem uses phased-array antennas located at the roots of the canards. Dassault has stated that the EW transmit antennas can produce a pencil beam compatible with the accuracy of the receiver system, concentrating power on the threat while minimizing the chances of detection.rafales-spectra-lpi-tech-jpg.205420 

meanwhile in future if we take 2020 timeframe by that time rafale would have installed expendable RF decoys project LEA
LEA.jpg

which would give off board jamming capabilty to rafale which would help rafale to dodge HOJ missiles with ease in comparision to on board jamming systems
Rafale News: Rafale developement, TRAGEDAC and LEA

CHEERS

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ladies & gentlemen!! hold your breath 

The legendary Bharat Crapnard is back , this time more interesting arabian night fantasy stuff in his articleicon_lol.gif
Unexpected windfall for France with Rafale?


.....This new turn of events, it may be deduced, was apparently something derived by the PMO that Narendra Modi, perhaps, assented to in line with MEA’s view that Paris needed to be mollified with bulk purchase of the Rafale to maintain goodwill with the French govt. Besides, it is a add-on to the initially floated proposal for some 24 Rafales bought off the shelf to stop the squawking about fast-depleting fighter squadrons by the IAF brass.This deduction because Parrikar’s MOD could not have turned around a full 180 degrees after the minister had shown his partiality for the Su-30MKI option, with the HAL Nasik produced aircraft available at around $80-$100 million per fully loaded plane. Now compare that with the $4bn India will be dishing out for 60 Rafales, i.e., at almost $50 million unit cost. Except this figure is just for the platform with no bells and whistles and no onboard armaments, and certainly no AESA radar. Once you begin totting up the costs for each of these items, the final bill for each of these Rafales would be nearer $200mn.icon_rofl.gif For Dassault and France this is surely an unexpected windfall, something they could’t have possibly even imagined coming to pass, because Dassault gets to produce all these aircraft and no nonsense about TOT, etc involved by bringing HAL into the picture. The French combat aircraft industry pivoting on the Rafale, which was down to producing just 11 of these planes annually, will now be able to ramp up production and keep itself in the clover for another 8-10 years thanks to the infernally stupid decision by the GOI. .......
http://bharatkarnad.com/2015/04/10/unexpected-windfall-for-france-with-rafale/

i think he also forgot to add jet fuel , pilots salary & G suit ,HMD, rafale's paint & tyres , then it would become 300Mn $ for each rafale .Is in't Mr B.Crapnard

Thats why B.Crapnard is so awesome in the field of defence journalismicon_wink.gif

CHEERS

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GUYS need your help

 

can you plz certify that this translation of mine from this pics are correct , if wrong plz correct it

 

rafale_en_inde.jpg

 

 

RAFALE IN INDIA
 
NEW DELHI CAN NOT WAIT
 
 
NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN DASSAULT HAL AND ARE IN NEUTRAL ON LOCAL PRODUCTION OF 108 UNITS.
 
PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA, VISITS PARIS, JUST TO ANNOUNCE THE ACQUISITION OFF THE SHELF 36 RAFALE.
 
Gone are the dark years for Dassault Rafale export . Egypt could have served as a trigger for the export of French flagship. After Cairo, New Delhi just voted for a shelf purchase of 36 French aircraft, no technology transfer. While the Team Rafale (Dassault, Thales, Safran) is
exclusive negotiations with India for three years for the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Air-craft) for 126 Rafale, 108 products in India, the statement of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, on an official visit to the Elysee, April 10, surprised everyone.
 
For India, the equation is simple: the negotiations between Dassault and New Delhi are blocked
for months on the question of the liability of aircraft out of the local production chain, while the Air Force is in urgent need of new combat aircraft, "crucial", in the words of Minister of India. It must be said that the French Rafale should replace a very aging fleet of MiG-21 and MiG-27 dating from 1960-1970, which records a very high attrition rate.
 
rafale_en_inde_pg2.jpg

REGIONAL POWER.
 
However, India, regional power, is facing a tense strategic context. There Pakistan, of course, that puts nemesis for applying and adapting F-16 performance, and that the territorial dispute over Kashmir is still open, but more importantly, there is China. Chinese expansionism deeply upset New Delhi. The two countries share more than 3,000 miles of land borders with areas of tension. But the war of power between the two most populous countries in the world is also played on the seas.The Chinese ships incursions in the Indian Ocean irritate New Delhi, who intends not to be done. In this, the Rafale will be a real strategic power tool.
 
The reasons for the acquisition of the French Indian surprise hunter are there: to have a long-range strike capability, deterrant, mainly oriented towards China. Because, equipped with a type of Scalp cruise missile several hundred kilometers of reach, India, with the Rafale, is capable of striking deep cry inside Chinese territory..While in this air-sea configuration with an Exocet missile, the Indian Air Force will also act very effectively against any Chinese building intrusion into its territorial waters, and make the Indian Ocean remains India In this context, the statement of intent to acquire 36 fighters is not so surprising, corresponding to a 36 aircraft fleet.
 
QUESTIONS.
 
Still, this announcement raises many questions.At First, it is only a statement of intent. No contract is signed yet. State-to-state negotiations will open on the 36
 
rafale which will set the price, armaments or delivery. A contract could be signed this summer, although negotiations with the Indians are traditionally difficult. If, as a rule, the first deliveries occur three years after signing the contract, New Delhi might ask to shorten these deadlines.. But the big outstanding question is: what happens to trading on the 126 planes under negotiations for three years? If this first contract for 36 Rafale, no technology transfer is successful, will
the MMRCA program be impacted . Because in the end, the need for the Indian Air Force remains. These first 36 jets will not allow India that wait without discredit, pending the arrival of a fleet of modern aircraft.
.
BREATH OF OXYGEN.
For the French defense, the contract will be a breath of fresh oxygène.While it still lacks more than € 2 billion to balance the budget in 2015 of hosts, thanks to these deliveries, the Air Force could see its own deliveries pushed back in favor of those of the Indians, which would ease the French financial burden ...
 
Three is "assured Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, about a possible sale of Rafale United Arab Emirates, on his return from a visit to Riyadh. But there is also Qatar and Malaysia ... The first sales of the Rafale could trigger other. For more interested customers sign later, the more they will have to wait to receive their jets...
 
Guillaume Belan
 
 
in the box part
 

 
India does not give up making Rafale
 
While the Indian Defense Ministry was negotiating with Dassault, it | will now discuss with the French Government for the purchase of additional aircraft beyond the 36 Rafale announced on 10 April. "Negotiation government to government is more suitable than the tendering procedure by" justified the Indian Defence Minister, Manohar Parrikar, on 13 April. New Delhi hopes to quickly finalize talks with Dassault hanging for three years.
 
For now, the change of interlocutor does not change the terms of trading on the MMRCA contract. Interviewed by "Air & Cosmos," Sitanshu Kar, spokesman of the Indian Ministry of Defense does not exclude 108 aircraft
 
Rafale are manufactured in India, as stipulated in the tender Initial. "India has not yet decided whether to buy other Rafale shelf or whether they will be assembled at home," he says. A point confirmed Laxman Behera, researcher and expert in "Procurement Code" at The Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, New Delhi Strategy: "The negotiation of government-to-government does not mean abandoning the production of Rafale in India . "Technology transfers are always possible. The researcher believes, however, that from now on, the French government, not Dassault, who will take responsibility for delays or manufacturing defect.
 
rafale_en_inde_4.jpg
 

MMRCA: challenges for local production
 
EVEN IF INDIA DO NOT ABANDONED TO PRODUCE AN IDEA OF THE DAY BURST, PROCUREMENT ON SHELF 36 DEVICES DEMONSTRATE THAT SEEMS TO LOCAL INDUSTRY IS STILL MOVING TO PRODUCE THE HUNTER DASSAULT.
 
The Indian aviation industry is progressing. This is the Eric Trappier, President of Dassault, and Pierre-Eric Poinmellet, de'finies Vice President, pounded on March 25 during delivery to the Indian Air Force First Mirage 2000 modernized. Progress, certainly, but still seem insufficient to ensure on-site production of such a complex device Rafale. In our preview edition of Aero India show,
 
Stéphane Lauret, president of Safran India highlighted the problems related to qualified labour .He felt that there was such a real lack of adequate training for careers in aviation in India.
 
The SUKHOI EXPERIENCE.
 
India has, however, already licensed product of western aircraft such as the Jaguar. Today, industrial HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) also produced locally Russian Su-30MKI. In both cases, same approach was adopted. Initially, the industry
India has merely asembler subsets books by foreign industry before gradually increase its involvement in production of devices . If the Jaguar in the 1980s and in 1990 ended up being entirely locally made, there remains doubts about the real involvement of Indian industry in the production Su-30MKI.
 
Even if the planes would currently produced fully in India, its level of complexity is not comparable to the Rafale.Indeed, the Flanker is a plane using mainly hydraulic  mechanics.
on the contrary, rafale is a plane using mainly electrical and electronic systems .
 
To show the generational leap from Flanker and Rafale, we can highlight the board oxygen system. On board the Rafale, oxygen for the pilot is generated by a system boards, while the Sukhoi Su-30MKI is equipped with oxygen tanks. The onboard oxygen generation system increases the battery life but it is more complex to produce.
 
 
POINT LOCK.
 
The establishment of industrial resources necessary for Rafale production in India is very complex. As stated Eric Trappier, Dassault Rafale and partners team can build on their already ancient settlement and their local partners. But the scale of the Rafale license requires to expand greatly the cooperation with India.
 
Dassault is ready to be involved much more in India, and agreements to this effect were found with HAL. The sticking point concerned the guarantee of the quality of the devices produced in India. Given the magnitude of the task, it is understood that the French manufacturer has been reluctant to take charge of the quality of these.
 
 
The order for 36 Rafale products in France will allow India to quickly have a fully operational system, and so meet the needs of the Indian Air Force. It also saves time for possibly prepare the longer term production in India of French fighter.
■ Emmanuel Huberdeau
 
 
 

 

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Yes, it seems to be  a good translation with little "bugs" anyway but not about the meaning, only gramatical, AFAIK.

For instance, the right translation for "chasseur" is not 'hunter" but "fighter", etc...but it is quite understandable for those who know a bit about warplanes.

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