Jump to content
AIR-DEFENSE.NET

Rafale and other european jets [English only]


Recommended Posts

 

https://www.studyiq.com/blog/supreme-court-rafale-deal-burning-issues-free-pdf/

https://www.prsindia.org/sites/default/files/parliament_or_policy_pdfs/CAG Report Summary_Capital Acquisition in IAF.pdf

https://www.aspireias.com/uploads/rstv/8_OCT_In_Depth.pdf

price of each rafale for IAF with waepons and maintainence ,and with 50 percent offset clause comes around 230 million dollars per jet:rolleyes:

Edited by DrSomnath999
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a une heure, DrSomnath999 a dit :

It's those who don't understand prices that say that, or those who don't want to understand.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 2 heures, DrSomnath999 a dit :

That means nothing if these numbers are not compared with the price of others jets on same basis. This Rafale price is given as if others aircrafts were for free... But yeah, French are so arrogant they want to be paid. :laugh:

Furthermore Pakistan has given a great réaction to the recent landing in Ambala confirming the game changing: India wanted a game changer, it has a game changer.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 4 heures, DrSomnath999 a dit :

price of each rafale for IAF with waepons and maintainence ,and with 50 percent offset clause comes around 230 million dollars per jet:rolleyes:

But, as stated in the PDF, the fly-away price comes around 90 million dollars per jet.

So the weapons, maintenance, base construction, instruction and so on is worth not less than Rs 25000 crore over the Rs 59000 crore G2G agreement.

Some of these costs will not be recurrent and some of these may be part of further contracts for more jets (and weapons, and airbase adaptation ...). It is just verry difficult to find what figure is relevant in order to compare plane acquisition costs. You have to compare on the same perimeter, so just define what is the right perimeter ...

Edited by FATac
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

At some point they need to be consistent with their claims.  The exact same argument can be made about a PL15 not being able to strike a Rafale (reduced RCS, Spectra etc..) at 200km.

The fact is that China has not demonstrated the effectiveness of J20, PL15 or their radar and guidance systems.  Whereas Rafale has demonstrated that it is fully operational and capable vs S200 in Lybia and S300 in Slovakia during Mace XIII exercise.

TBH i am not interested in chinese government's claims.  The lack of transparency and false information is astounding.  Just look at Covid 19. Yeah right! only about 80k cases and all is under control.  If it was it would not have spread across the planet!

Edited by Lordtemplar
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

spacer.png

members who are quoting my post regarding the price of rafale  per jet,perhaps taking it  in a -ve way i assume.:sad: But  i posted this on a basis of simple math not anything else and that too it is for IAF .

60000 crore deal for 36 jets each jet for india comes for around 230 million dollars per jet according to simple math no rocket science involve to prove it.

-Regardless of  the deal  price of rafale excluding weapons /external avionics suite / maintainience /support / is constant no matter who buys it [90 million dollars est ] can be 1   or  2 million dollar higher depending upon the inflation. 

https://www.sify.com/news/fact-check-are-we-really-paying-three-times-more-for-each-rafale-jet-news-columns-skdsLSaabhbce.html#:~:text=€94 Million apiece).,cost IAF €1.7 Billion.

Quote

 

Opposition party today blames the present Government to have increased the Rafale’s Price Per Unit (PPU) from the UPA negotiated of Rs 590 Crore to Rs. 1670 Crore. Though they never provided the basis of UPA finalized Rs 590 Crore. To understand if the present deal has made a dent on tax payer’s pocket, we must see (i) what amount India has agreed to pay and what we are getting from Dassault & (ii) what other customers (Egypt and Qatar) have paid.For fair analysis, the cost must be discussed in EUROs and not Rupee that has depreciated by 13% since the deal was signed.

36 Rafale would cost us around €7.8 Bn. GoI has not officially revealed the figures, however after signing the Rafale deal, a senior political leader of the ruling alliance, NDA held an off the record briefing with several journalists. On analysing deals struck by other customers of Rafale, figures given in that off-the-record briefing appears to be authentic.

Journalists were informed that IAF will get 28 single seat fighters (appr. €91.07 Million apiece) and 8 twin seat fighters (appr. €94 Million apiece). Total of just 36 Rafales (without weaponry, Indian Specific Enhancement, life cycle cost etc.) would cost €3.3 Billion.

India-Specific Enhancement (required by the IAF) would cost IAF €1.7 Billion. IAF will pay €1.8 Bn for spare parts and engines, €700 million for weaponry and €350 million for `Performance based logistics`, which will ensure that 75% of the Rafale fleet remains operationally available. All these add up to make the remaining €4.5 Bn.

This is the breakup of complete €7.87 (3.3 + 4.5) Bn deal - €218 PPU. The question still remains - if NDA paid more than the UPA negotiated deal?

The answer can be found if we get to see the similar break up of UPA negotiated deal. As per available information, UPA could never complete the negotiation. Neither they are producing any details of the allegedly finalized price of Rs 590 Crore a piece.
 

But if we compare our deal with Egypt or Qatar, we might get some answer. In 2015, Egypt signed a deal with France for €5.2 Bn for 24 Rafales, 1 FREMM warship (a Frigate) and weaponry (a number of short/medium range missiles). With no 75% Servicebility assurance, Special Enhancements, TOT or Offset clause, Egypt purchased Rafale at €210 million a plane. Qatar placed an order of 24 Rafales for €6.3 Bn but with extensive weapons, training (included training of 26 pilots and 100 technicians) and maintenance programme. Qatar paid €262 million apiece with no Special Enhancements, TOT or Offset clause. India on the other hand paid €218 million for each Rafale with 50% Offset, no TOT but with India Specific Enhancements. These enhancements include integration of Indian and Israeli equipment and as Vishnu Som explained - `the India specific upgrades include a Low band jammer, a towed array decoy system, additional modes and greater resolution in the main radar and the Front Sector Optronics System of the jet.

` These make Indian Rafales technologically superior to the Rafales in French Air Force. Had we placed an order with no Special Enhancement as Egypt or Qatar did, Total cost of the deal would have been €6 Bn and we would have got Rafale at appr €171 million apiece, much cheaper than Egypt or Qatar.

 

 

 

CHEERS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DrSomnath999
Link to post
Share on other sites

https://en.218tv.net/2020/08/06/intervention-in-libya-escalates-accusations-between-paris-and-ankara/

 

spacer.png

Intervention in Libya escalates accusations between Paris and Ankara

 

 

https://eurasiantimes.com/s-400-vs-rafale-turkey-to-deploy-russian-s-400-missile-to-counter-french-rafale-jets/

 

 

 

 

S-400 vs Rafale: Turkey to deploy Russian S-400 Missile to counter French Rafale Jets

India would be keeping a close eye as French-built Rafale jets could take on Russian-designed S-400 air defence systems in Libya. India is set to acquire both S-400s and Rafale jets as Turkey looks to protect its interest in Libya

 

S-400 missiles vs Rafale jets could soon be a reality as Turkey could possibly deploy Russian S-400 air defence systems in Libya to counter the French & Egyptian air force which includes the Mirage and Rafale jets. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 1 heure, DrSomnath999 a dit :

60000 crore deal for 36 jets each jet for india comes for around 230 million dollars per jet according to simple math no rocket science involve to prove it.

Correct. But that doesn't mean each jet costs that much. Bells and whistles don't come for free, you know.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, DEFA550 said:

Correct. But that doesn't mean each jet costs that much. Bells and whistles don't come for free, you know.

It's not my fault if you can't understand or lazy enough to read the sentence posted below that part you quoted in my previous post which I posted.:rolleyes:

CHEERS

 

Edited by DrSomnath999
Link to post
Share on other sites

people who criticize only the price the price of a fighter plane is that they have no arguments against the plane itself ... which means that they admit that the plane is efficient and that they have no argument concerning possible weaknesses. It is therefore an admission of weakness in the argument that could demonstrate that the aircraft is not efficient. There is therefore more than the argument on the price to sweep, which should not be very complicated ...

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
il y a 5 minutes, jojo (lo savoyârd) a dit :

people who criticize only the price the price of a fighter plane is that they have no arguments against the plane itself ... which means that they admit that the plane is efficient and that they have no argument concerning possible weaknesses. It is therefore an admission of weakness in the argument that could demonstrate that the aircraft is not efficient. There is therefore more than the argument on the price to sweep, which should not be very complicated ...

Capture-d%C3%A9cran-2016-10-27-14.34.13.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting article.  In fact it may be Turkish F16 which may face Russian S300/S400 in Lybia. 

Pictures have appeared on social media which seem to confirm this.  The fact that Russian Antonovs recently made trips from Russia to Lybia reinforces this possibility

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35460/new-intel-indicates-russia-may-have-sent-s-300-or-s-400-surface-to-air-missiles-to-libya

spacer.png

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Patrick said:

Thanks @DrSomnath999, I don't recall reading this before. 

well henri pierre grolleu articles are wonderful:chirolp_iei: .I am a big fan of his articles .He is a great journo  published many articles in Air fan and air et cosmos magazines 

 

 

CHEERS

Edited by DrSomnath999
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

intéressant la ligne ou ils parlent du combo Meteor/RBE2 AESA et la réallocation de cible en plein vol ... de quoi faire fermer leur gueule aux proTyphoon-Gripen et le two-way link soit disant absent du Rafale ? .... 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Il y a 5 heures, DrSomnath999 a dit :

interesting french pdf source i found can anyone translate it english

REGARDS

https://www.ifri.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/noel_paglia_tenenbaum_armees_menaces_2018.pdf

The pdf is protected meaning instead of copy paste it to DeepL or google translate, it would take a while to recopy and translate the content by hand.

What particular themes or passages are you interested about? There's a lot of info.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Member Statistics

    5,560
    Total Members
    1,550
    Most Online
    Jojo91
    Newest Member
    Jojo91
    Joined
  • Forum Statistics

    21,130
    Total Topics
    1,386,889
    Total Posts
  • Blog Statistics

    3
    Total Blogs
    2
    Total Entries
×
×
  • Create New...