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7.62x39mm CZ 807s in use by Egyptian Security Forces, Possible option to Manufacture in Egypt

Screen-Shot-2017-12-15-at-4.14.36-PM.png

Photographs of Egyptian Security Forces armed with 7.62x39mm CZ 807s have recently surfaced, thanks to the efforts of Egypt Defense Review and Mahmoud Gamal, both in-depth analysts of Egyptian defense programs. The 7.62x39mm rifles were recently seen in what appears to be a joint operation with Egyptian Paratroopers and Sa’ka special forces in Egypt. In 2013 we reported that a large contract with Česká zbrojovka Uherský Brod (CZ) had taken place wherein CZ P-07 handguns, Scorpions, and 5.56x45mm CZ 805s were purchased. From the images, at the time it would appear that this was a law enforcement program to Egyptian police forces separate from the defense forces. Now, from various sources online, it looks like Egypt is actually interested in manufacturing the 807 at home, purchasing a manufacturing license from CZ. This process appears to have picked up in May of this year, and there isn’t much information beyond that. We also have a post on Egypt Defense Portal that has this to say about the technology transfer (Google Translate)-

After the announcement by Lubomír Kovaíík, the head of Czech small arms manufacturer Česká Zbrojovka CZ during a press conference in February with the Czech newspaper Deník, that Egypt had begun negotiations with the company to transfer manufacturing technology For the CZ 807 double-caliber assault rifle (39 x 7.62 mm Soviet and 45 x 5.56 mm NATO), explaining that the conclusion of the contract depends on the results of the test of Egypt for the Venice current period and to complement the previous report we review the most important features of the gun and its technical specifications.

It must be noted that the 807 Bren is actually a dual caliber rifle, unlike the earlier 5.56x45mm NATO 805 that it is derived from. Initially comes with a lower receiver that accepts proprietary CZ 7.62x39mm magazines (and matching interchangeable barrel/bolt). These magazines are of note because they are direct insert and not at all compatible with standard Kalashnikov magazines with the “rock in” magazine release. Inserting a STANAG magazine insert allows the use of 5.56x45mm NATO magazines to used, along with changing out the interchangeable barrel and the bolt.

This photograph was chared on Egypt Defense Review’s.

The Firearm's Blog

 

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Le fait que deux armes se ressemblent ne veut pas dire qu'elles sont identiques. On présente souvent le VHS croate comme un FAMAS local alors qu'il n'y a pas grand chose à voir.

De toute façon, en matière d'armes légères, beaucoup d'armes finissent par se ressembler du fait d'une certaine standardisation (cartouches, rails Picatinny...). 

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Grillé par Kiri

 

Ceci dit, les chinois semblent avoir des Vector (18:30) et également 2 types d'étuis différents pour leur munitions.

 

 

Modifié par Fanch
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Ukrainian Military Receives First M4-WAC-47s

Ukroboronprom, the state-owned Ukrainian defence concern, has confirmed the first deliveries of its M4-WAC-47 rifle to Ukrainian troops for evaluation. The rifle, based on the M4, is chambered in 7.62x39mm, earlier information had referred to the weapon as the M16-WAC-47.

DSC8681-660x440.jpg

In an end of year statement one the company’s progress in developing and delivering a variety of defence contracts ranging from small arms to armoured vehicles, Ukroboronprom confirmed that :

"the first batch of M4 – WAC-47 has already been handed over to the representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard and other law enforcement agencies for conducting comprehensive tests, which are a prerequisite for adoption."

The M4-WAC-47 will be manufactured in Ukraine but was co-developed with the US-based defence company Aeroscraft. The new rifle is a response to Ukraine’s geopolitical situation. With the ongoing civil war and the continued use of ComBloc weapons, including small arms chambered in 7.62x39mm, and the countries desire to further integrate with NATO. The M4-WAC-47’s response to the Ukrainian military’s need for weapons chambered in both 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm is to offer a rifle with the modulairty to chamber both rounds. This is accomplished by switching the rifle’s upper receiver, which Ukroboronprom claim, can be done in less than 20 seconds in the field.

Back in January 2017, when the project was first announced, it was stated that the WAC-47 would be available in a variety of barrel lengths including: 10.5″, 11.5″, 14.5″, 18″ and 24″. From the most recent available photographs the early examples of the rifle appear to be outfitted with an MLOK hand-guard and a Magpul MOE pistol grip and CTR carbine stock, whether these furniture choices will continue once in full production remains unclear. The rifle also uses what appears to be a proprietary magazine rather than a standard AK-pattern magazine. This limits the use of widely available AK magazines in the region and indicates the designer’s priority to ensure the lower also feeds from 5.56x45mm STANAG magazines. It’s planned that the M4-WAC-47, once adopted, will be issued to both Ukranian Ground Forces and the National Guard.

TheFirearms'sBlog

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il y a une heure, Kiriyama a dit :

Ukrainian Military Receives First M4-WAC-47s

Ukroboronprom, the state-owned Ukrainian defence concern, has confirmed the first deliveries of its M4-WAC-47 rifle to Ukrainian troops for evaluation. The rifle, based on the M4, is chambered in 7.62x39mm, earlier information had referred to the weapon as the M16-WAC-47.

Un bel exemple de gabegie politique ...

Dans un pays à l'économie ruinée et en guerre civile qui pullulent d'AK-47 et AK-74, ils investissent pour sortir un nouveau fusil d'origine américaine (sous licence ?) sans aucune pièces communes avec l'existant (dont les chargeurs ayant pourtant le même calibre) et utilisant des composants importés !

Quand on voit que les américains, riches et en paix, ont depuis des dizaines d'années des nouveautés technologiques importantes mais ne considère pas comme rentable de changer de fusil et de calibre, on croit rêver.

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C'est simplement une façon de montrer son allégeance aux Etats-Unis en adoptant une arme américaine. 

D'autres le font avec des F-35. 

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Le 07/01/2018 à 11:19, Kiriyama a dit :

Ukrainian Military Receives First M4-WAC-47s

Ukroboronprom, the state-owned Ukrainian defence concern, has confirmed the first deliveries of its M4-WAC-47 rifle to Ukrainian troops for evaluation. The rifle, based on the M4, is chambered in 7.62x39mm, earlier information had referred to the weapon as the M16-WAC-47.

DSC8681-660x440.jpg

In an end of year statement one the company’s progress in developing and delivering a variety of defence contracts ranging from small arms to armoured vehicles, Ukroboronprom confirmed that :

"the first batch of M4 – WAC-47 has already been handed over to the representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the National Guard and other law enforcement agencies for conducting comprehensive tests, which are a prerequisite for adoption."

The M4-WAC-47 will be manufactured in Ukraine but was co-developed with the US-based defence company Aeroscraft. The new rifle is a response to Ukraine’s geopolitical situation. With the ongoing civil war and the continued use of ComBloc weapons, including small arms chambered in 7.62x39mm, and the countries desire to further integrate with NATO. The M4-WAC-47’s response to the Ukrainian military’s need for weapons chambered in both 7.62x39mm and 5.56x45mm is to offer a rifle with the modulairty to chamber both rounds. This is accomplished by switching the rifle’s upper receiver, which Ukroboronprom claim, can be done in less than 20 seconds in the field.

Back in January 2017, when the project was first announced, it was stated that the WAC-47 would be available in a variety of barrel lengths including: 10.5″, 11.5″, 14.5″, 18″ and 24″. From the most recent available photographs the early examples of the rifle appear to be outfitted with an MLOK hand-guard and a Magpul MOE pistol grip and CTR carbine stock, whether these furniture choices will continue once in full production remains unclear. The rifle also uses what appears to be a proprietary magazine rather than a standard AK-pattern magazine. This limits the use of widely available AK magazines in the region and indicates the designer’s priority to ensure the lower also feeds from 5.56x45mm STANAG magazines. It’s planned that the M4-WAC-47, once adopted, will be issued to both Ukranian Ground Forces and the National Guard.

TheFirearms'sBlog

Voyons Simon, j'ai donné l'information 5 messages plus haut.

DTfgxaPXcAARf_k.jpg

Cela ressemble au Barrett MRAD 338 LM http://modernfirearms.net/en/sniper-rifles/standart-caliber-rifles/u-s-a-standart-caliber-rifles/barrett-mrad-eng/

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Sarsılmaz puts out MPT76 Prototypes, Production to ensue

Screen-Shot-2018-01-17-at-12.31.26-AM-66

The independent Turkish small arms company Sarsılmaz has released their first pre-production prototypes of the MPT76 and should soon begin production on their share (10,000 rifles) of the 7.62x51mm NATO MPT76 rifle contract ordered by the Turkish Armed Forces. MKEK has since already been producing MPT76s since 2015(20,000 rifles), and along with Kalekalip (15,000 rifles) will form one of the three companies producing the infantry rifle slated to replace current HK33s in service with the Turkish Armed Forces. Approximately 35,014 (later upped to 45,000) are slated within this contract, but that will certainly not be enough to arm the entirety of the 500,000 plus service men and women currently in the armed forces of Turkey. These MPT76s appear to be making their way to the infantry community, with follow-on contracts to arm the rest of the military in the ensuing years.

In February of 2017 Sarsılmaz signed an agreement with the Turkish MoD for production plans of the rifle and has just now completed prototyping. Although the rifle that Sarsılmaz produces should be identical to the MKE and Kalekalip versions, the company obviously has to undergo a testing process to make sure their production version fits the specifications and is parts interchangeable with the rifles from the other two companies. As a side note, the company is perhaps the oldest currently operating small arms company in the Turkish Republic, having been established in 1880 and is currently run by a fifth-generation family member.

From what we can ascertain at TFB it appears that the whole MPT76 procurement and manufacturing process has drug on for at least the past decade with barely a dent in actually getting the rifle to Turkish forces operating in the eastern part of the country against Kurdish insurgents or even those deployed along the Syrian border. If this were a new design it might be understandable, but the MPT76 is essentially a Turkish copy of the Heckler & Koch HK417. The Special Forces and the elite Turkish cops, the PÖH, still don’t want anything to do with the design, preferring imported foreign small arms instead. In fact, it appears that the MoD is almost more interested in gifting foreign allies (Somalia, Northern Cyprus) and the intelligence service with MPT76s instead of the infantry. This begs the question of whether the Turkish infantry high command even wants the rifle to begin with, possibly preferring the lighter 5.56x45mm HK33s.

TheFirearmsBlog

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7 hours ago, Papi Pépite said:

L'argument du la sur-longueur des arme dû aux réducteurs ... compensé par le bullpup  et plutot pertinent.

Quote

The decreased length makes the weapon more portable and easier to maneuver. If paired with an integrated suppressor, this type of design provides a smaller shooting package with advanced suppression.

Some concerns shooters have with bullpup designs are the limited weight balance that can throw off accuracy, especially in automatic modes.

Par contre je comprends pas l'argument de l'équilibre, en mode auto?!!! Pourtant l'AUG, sa version australienne, le Tavor, la bordel anglais, le FAMAS ont montré qu'il n'y a pas de souci particulier de précision.

On voit même des tireurs un peut aguerri tirer en mode "pistolet" avec certain bullpup... même si ca ne sert pas forcément a grand chose, si le machin était mal équilibré ça serait tres "compliqué".

Pour le tir a gauche ... a priori un déflecteur comme sur les F90 fait bien l'affaire si besoin. Même si en pratique le tire a gauche semble très peu utilisé.

 

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Il y a 6 heures, g4lly a dit :

L'argument du la sur-longueur des arme dû aux réducteurs ... compensé par le bullpup  et plutot pertinent.

Par contre je comprends pas l'argument de l'équilibre, en mode auto?!!! Pourtant l'AUG, sa version australienne, le Tavor, la bordel anglais, le FAMAS ont montré qu'il n'y a pas de souci particulier de précision.

On voit même des tireurs un peut aguerri tirer en mode "pistolet" avec certain bullpup... même si ca ne sert pas forcément a grand chose, si le machin était mal équilibré ça serait tres "compliqué".

Pour le tir a gauche ... a priori un déflecteur comme sur les F90 fait bien l'affaire si besoin. Même si en pratique le tire a gauche semble très peu utilisé.

 

Mince ça veut dire que je vais devoir arrêter de recadrer les gens qui mettent des commentaires de simplet sur le remplacement du Famas par une plate forme AR15 ? :blink::tongue: Après je suis peut être moi même en tort et les bull pup ont peut être énormément mûrit de nos jours ils héritent sûrement malheureusement de leurs mauvaises réputations qui les précèdent.

Au fait qu'est ce que le l85 à de si mauvais? Je vois énormément de critiques dessus.

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Le Kel Tec RDB résout presque tout les problèmes reprochés aux bullpup.

Crosse réglable en longueur et en hauteur, éjection des douilles par le bas au niveau de la crosse, garde-mains allongeable (en option) pour ceux qui aime avoir leur main plus vers l'avant, un mécanisme simplifié et un fusil très doux au tir.

RDBFlyerLowRes-2.jpg

 

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il y a 47 minutes, Conan le Barbare a dit :

Le Kel Tec RDB résout presque tout les problèmes reprochés aux bullpup.

Crosse réglable en longueur et en hauteur, éjection des douilles par le bas au niveau de la crosse, garde-mains allongeable (en option) pour ceux qui aime avoir leur main plus vers l'avant, un mécanisme simplifié et un fusil très doux au tir.

RDBFlyerLowRes-2.jpg

 

Oooooooooooooooh ! Bonjour toi :amusec:

Déjà vu, mais ça veut dire que l'US Army s'y intéresse ou c'est juste une affiche de com banale ?

Modifié par Papi Pépite

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À noter aussi, les Bullpup sont un gros avantages quand l'on veut tiré avec un silencieux.

- Leur point de balance est plus sur l'arrière ce qui contre balance le poids du silencieux.

- leur architecture plus compacte réduit les inconvénients liées à la longueur des silencieux.

Modifié par Conan le Barbare

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Citation

Au fait qu'est ce que le l85 à de si mauvais? Je vois énormément de critiques dessus.

Gros soucis de fiabilité et de solidité à ses débuts.

Complètement résolus depuis la mise à jour en SA80A2.

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