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pas de supercruise avec le rafale?

t'as vu ça ou?

chez jackonico le blaireau? lol

prouve le, quand Dassault le confirme, ça va etre encore plus drole!

"le rafale est tellement fin que l'on peu accélérer en supersonique

et tenir la supercroisiere pleins gaz sec, sans postcombustion ,

s'enthousiasme thomas picot," référence Air fan (juin 2005)

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le rafale est tellement fin que l'on peu accélérer en supersonique pleins gaz sec

--> Puis (avec quelle configuration ?) :

A priori, 2 mica, 2 magic et un résevoir supersonique.

J 'attends pour une confirmation officielle . Quelqu 'un , anyone ?

A+

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Dada4 a ecrit Fonck: Les SEM sont capable de voler à Mach 1,15 maxi en palier à 9150m d'altitude ! et Mach 1,4 en piqué! seulement! La Vmax en BA c'est 1200km/h . Vraiment? 9150m c'est pa leur altitude optimum, a laquelle ils volent a M 1.3 EN PALIER.

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"le rafale est tellement fin que l'on peu accélérer en supersonique

et tenir la supercroisiere pleins gaz sec, sans postcombustion ,

s'enthousiasme thomas picot," référence Air fan (juin 2005)

Merci tom, je ne m'en rappelais plus de ça !

En gros : Bluewings :"le Rafale vole à mach 3"

Francois5 v2.1 : "Chuuuut ! devoir de réserve !!!"

:arrow: Ils étaient pas en train de nous anticiper le premier avril ces deux là ?

Entre Bluewing qui nous dit que le Rafale peut allez dans l'espace et Francois qui fait mine d'accréditer ses propos... :lol:

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Arka_Voltchek a ecrit:

Fonck, j'ai déjà parlé a un pilote de laéronavale qui ma dit ne pas pouvoir voler a plus de M1.1 en palier.

@+, Arka

Mais oui, tout le monde sait qu'en france les progres technologique se font a reculon. Moi on m'a dit que le mirage III Avon volait a M 1.3 en 1963 et c'etait pas "un pilote" c'etait Jean Marie Saget, le chef pilote de chez Dassault pour les essais du 4000.

Il a precise bien sur (ce pilote e l'aeornavale) a quelle atltitude et dans quelle configuration????

>>>>>

The Etendard IV

In December 1953, in tandem to its light interceptor program, the Air Force general staff called for a tactical support and fighter aircraft, specilly designed to operate in the vicinity of the front line and, in principle, at low altitude. It was to have a dual mission : to carry out ground attacks and to fight for air superiority, although the former would be its main role. For safety reasons, it was to have twin engines. The Navy also wanted a similar aircraft which could be embarked on its aircraft-carriers.

Two prototypes were ordered, from Dassault and from Breguet alike : two with twin Gabizo jet engines for the Air Force (the Etendard II and the Breguet Br 1100) and two with a single Orpheus engine for the NATO competition (the Etendard VI and the Breguet Br 1001 Taon). On its own initiative, Dassault designed an Etendard IV, based around a Snecma Atar 101 E jet engine ; this was also ordered.

To meet the requirements of both French and NATO programs, Dassault kept the aerodynamic configuration of the Mystère XX (the future Super-Mystère) by applying it to smaller aircraft equipped with engines capable of reaching transonic speeds without the use of after-burners.

Thus its was that the Mystère XXII (Etendard II, Mystère XXIV (Etendard IV) and Mystère XXVI (Etendard VI) came to be designed ; they incoporated major advances in high lift devices, allowing for lower take-off and landing speeds.

The Mystère XXIV, which became the Etendard IV, was the object of a contract awarded to the Mérignac Avions Marcel Dassault corporation on Novembre 1954. A Marine version was envisaged from the outset, taking account of the adaptations required for maritime operation (folding wings, deck landing hooks, reinforced fuselage and landing structures and the accompanying navigation and radar instruments).

With its single 3,6500-kg thrust Snecma Atar 101 E engine, the Mystère XXIV flew for the first time at Mérignac on July 24, 1956, piloted by Georges Brian. As with the Mystère XXII, the wing was derived from that of the Super-Mystère B 2.

Flight tests confirmed the aircraft’s qualities for ground attack as well as low altitude interception missions, which aroused the interest of the Air Force and Navy.

A the end of 1957, the Etendard IV to part to the NATO competition but was disqualified because of its Snecma Atar 101 because NATO insisted on the use of the Orpheus jet engine which it financed. There was keen disappointment at the Defense Ministry, which eventually deselected the Etendard IV proposed for the Air Force. Only the year before, an order for 300 aircraft had been envisaged, and then abandoned when the light tactical support program was brought into question by the multipurpose capability expected of the Mirage III.

As for the Navy, as the light twin-engine aircraft program had been held back in check, it came back to the solution proposed by Dassault in July 1954 : deriving a seaborne aircraft from the Mystère XXIV (Etendard IV) which had been offered to the Air Force.

Technical and performance figures

EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS

Span

9.04 m

Lenght 13.40 m

PERFORMANCES

Max. Speed 1.25 Top Mach

ENGINE

Type Snecma Atar 101 E 34.3 kN

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/gb/dassault_a_a_z/avions/detail.cfm?id=43

>>>>>

Etendard IV M and P

In 1955, the engineering department of aeronautics asked Dassault to redesign the Mystère XXIV (Étendard IV), proposed to the Air Force, to turn it into a " low-altitude fighter and attack seaborne aircraft". The seaborne Étendard IV M prototype was a low and middle altitude fighter and attack aircraft, deployable from aircraft-carriers of the Clemenceau class, and fitted with the 4400-kg thrust Snecma Atar 8 jet engine.

The first Étendard IV M flew at Melun-Villaroche on May 21, 1958, with Jean-Marie Saget at the controls. Five pre-production aircraft were manufactured. Its performance and external load capacity made the Étendard IV M an excellent attack aircraft, with a secondary role as an interceptor and aerial combat aircraft, in accordance with the Navy’s specifications. The Navy placed an order for 90, including 30 for photo-reconnaissance (Étendard IV P). The prototype #07 (or Étendard IV P), ordered in September 1959, first flew on November 19, 1960. This version carried 5 OMERA cameras in the fuselage nose, while the ventral bay could accommodate long-focus cameras in lieu of the cannons. It had a nonretractable pole of in-flight refueling.

Between December 9, 1961 and May 26, 1965, the Navy received 69 Étendard IV M and 21 Étendard IV P. For the first time of its history, it reached transonic speeds. Étendard IV M remained in active service in the Navy until July 1991. They carried out in all 180 000 hours of flight and 25 300 landings. Étendard IV P remained in active service in the Navy until July 27, 2000. They carried out more than 200 000 hours of flight.

Technical and performance figures

EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS

Span

9,60 m

Lenght 14,35 m

Height 3,85 m

WEIGHTS

Unladen weight 5800 kg

PERFORMANCES

Max. Speed 1.30 Top mach

Max. height 45 000 m pratique

ENGINE

Type 1 Snecma Atar 8 C 44.1 kN

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/gb/dassault_a_a_z/avions/detail.cfm?id=44

>>>>>

The Super Mystère B1

In the middle of 1953, the Saint-Cloud design office started work on a new wing with a 45° sweepback angle at 25% of chord and relative thickness ratio of 6%. For the wing and tail unit, a new technique known as integrated structures was employed, based on machining very thick sheet metal and using titanium for the bolts and certain mechanical parts.

The fuselage of the Mystère IV B was kept and fitted with a Rolls-Royce Avon RA 7 engine. The resulting aircraft was successively known as Mystère XX, the Mystère IV B 1 and finally the sSuper-Mystère B 1.

The internally financed Super-Mystère B 1 01 first flew at Melun-Villaroche on March 2, 1955, piloted by Paul Boudier. The following day, Paul Boudier broke Mach 1 in level flight. It was the first aircraft in Western Europe to be capable of sustained level flight above Mach 1.

In the end, the Super-Mystère B 1 aimed at the export market didn’t meet with success, potential customers the argument that the French Air Force had not ordred it.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/gb/dassault_a_a_z/avions/detail.cfm?id=93

>>>>>

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4610/netmarinerafalechar013gx.jpg

Image IPB

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3167/m888ok.jpg

Image IPB

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/3346/frommiragetorafale5lv.jpg

Image IPB

Ceux-la connaissent pas leut ABC non plus...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/2159/frenchnavyfleet4gi.jpg

Image IPB

>>>>>

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Pour ma part, j'ignore si la vitesse maximale possible pour le Super Etendard en palier est plutôt Mach 1,1 ou Mach 1,3, mais de toutes façons, pour la puissance dont il dispose Mach 1,1 il me semble que ça prouverait déjà que c'est un bon appareil. :D D'autant que, pour ce qui est du Rafale, il est d'une tout autre génération d'un point de vue aérodynamique. Le Super Etendard est un bon exemple de la compétence historique des bureaux de Dassault, mais dans une discussion sur le Rafale, je ne suis pas sûr que ça vaille le coup de se battre pour ça. ;)

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Francois5 v2.1 a ecrit: "Euh non, je ne parlais que du systeme genial qui, quand on appuie sur un bouton, on devient tout bizarre... c'est tout! " C'est le siege ejectable... Dans les tunels c'est la migraine guarantie...

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Histoire de remonter à la où on était...

l'annulation active peux être obtenue en fabriquant une sorte de plasma leger autour de l'appareil qui arrêtera sans les réfléchirs les ondes radar

Ah bon, t'es sûr ? Je vois pas pourquoi on cherche à stopper les ondes incidentes. On veut annuler la perception de l'écho par le récepteur du radar émettant en lui additionnant un signal décalé d'une demi-période (j'ai réussi cette fois Alexis !!! :lol: )... C'est, autant que je sache, un procédé déjà utilisé pour les sons par exemple, mais je ne sais pas précisément... :lol:

En fait, Arka_Voltcheck, tu parles des "plasma shielding". C'est cool ça. Non ? :rolleyes:

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Signature Infra-rouge d 'un plasma : We measured the far infrared reflectivity of two superconducting Pr2–xCexCuO4 films above and below Tc. The reflectivity in the superconducting state increases and the optical conductivity drops at low energies, in agreement with the opening of a (possibly) anisotropic superconducting gap. The maximum energy of the gap scales roughly with Tc as 2Deltamax/kBTc[approximate]4.7. We determined absolute values of the penetration depth at 5 K as lambdaab = (3300±700) Å for x = 0.15 and lambdaab = (2000±300) Å for x = 0.17. A spectral weight analysis shows that the Ferrell-Glover-Tinkham sum rule is satisfied at conventional low energy scales ~4Deltamax. Simple , non 8) :lol: a+

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Jetez un oeuil sur cet article: DATE:04/04/06 SOURCE:Flight International Swedes lobby Norway and Demark to quit Lockheed JSF and join Saab Gripen programme. http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/04/04/Navigation/190/205801/Swedes+lobby+Norway+and+Demark+to+quit+Lockheed+JSF+and+join+Saab+Gripen.html Ca augure bien des chances des Europeen face au USA. Y compris Rafale...

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