striker
-
Compteur de contenus
30 -
Inscription
-
Dernière visite
jamais
Messages posté(e)s par striker
-
-
thanks very much :D
en echange je te montre le porte char utilisè par les british qui est un camion d'origine US dotè d'un moteur caterpillar
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/muv/muv_ttuc.htm
de son site officiel avec la brochure
http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~het~1070f.cfm
derniere question ,est ce que le TRM 700 est encore en prodution parce que j'arrive pas a le trouver sur le site officiel de renault military truck ???
-
quel type de camion utilise l'armèe française pour transporter ses chars leclerc ?? merci d'avance.
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
:arrow: PIRANHA IIIC / TOURELLE ARROWS http://www.mil.be/def/subject/index.asp?LAN=fr&FILE=&ID=482&PAGE=29&MENU=0
-
merci philippe pour les pics,je voudrai plus d'infos sur le fardier lohr ..
mula mecanica espagnol
-
-
-
je me demande bien si il y'a un systeme de rechargement automatique dans la tourelle du Sagaie ,si je me trompe pas il emporte un equipage composè de 3 hommes comme le leclerc ???
-
Algerian Arms Deal Brings Russia $7.5 billion, Gas Market Leverage
Posted 15-Mar-2006 10:40
Related stories: Africa, Budgets, Contracts - Awards, Fighters & Attack, Issues - International, Missiles - Anti-Armor, Missiles - Surface-Air, New Systems Tech, Other Corporation, Other Equipment - Land, Policy - Procurement, Radars, Russia, Specialty Aircraft, Support & Maintenance, Surface Ships - Combat, Tanks & Mechanized
Also on this day: 15-Mar-2006 »
Yak-130
(click to view full)In an earlier February 1, 2006 report, DID noted that a $4 billion arms sale was brewing between Algeria and Russia involving fighter aircraft, tanks, and air defense systems, with the possibility of additional equipment. Those options would appear to have come through, as numerous sources are now reporting that a high-level Russian delegation in Algeria has closed $7.5 billion worth of arms contracts. The Algerian package would be post-Soviet Russia's largest ever single arms deal, and compares to annual Russian weapons exports to all customers of $5-6 billion per year over the last couple of years.
T-90 tank
(click to view full)Reuters South Africa quotes Rosoboronexport chief Sergei Chemezov as saying that "Practically all types of arms which we have are included, anti-missile systems, aviation, sea and land technology." Reports regarding the exact composition of the deal vary, and many don't add up when measured against a $7.5 billion total. DID has found a package composition report that seems closer to the mark based on the package's value, and the structure of the deal itself is highly consequential and so worth discussing. We'll conclude with an updated note regarding Algeria's past pattern of arms acquisitions, which may help to explain the sophistication of the weapons to be found in this deal.
The Algerian Package: What's the Big Deal?
SU-30MK
(click to view full)Absent any confirmatory releases by Rosoboronexport, reports regarding this deal have varied. ITAR-Tass, for instance, reported Algeria will buy 40 MiG-29 fighters, 20 Sukhoi-30 fighters and 16 Yak-130 training planes as well as 8 S-300 PMU2 Favorit rocket systems and about 40 T-90 tanks. This is the composition most often reported in the press, but it doesn't come close to a $7.5 billion dollar deal.
A better and more detailed report comes from Vedomosti, which details the deal package as:
34 MiG-29SMT Fulcrum lightweight multi-role fighters, a slight reduction from DID's February 1, 2006 report of 36 planes
28 Su-30MKA Flanker two-seat multi-role fighters. This figure is the same as DID's earlier report.
14 Yak-130 Mitten combat trainers and light attack aircraft. DID's earlier report had noted the Yaks as an additional option, with the possibility of up to 50 aircraft. They will complement/ replace Algeria's older L-39 ZA Albatros aircraft from Czechoslovakia.
This aspect of the deal is valued at a total of $3.5 billion, and reportedly includes a trade-in whereby 36 older MiG-29s will be returned to Russia to be resold to third countries. According to Vedomosti, other contracts in the package include:
300 T-90S main battle tanks. For tanks, the 'S' designation signifies an export version ($1 billion);
Upgrades of 250 T-72 main battle tanks (over $200 million);
AT-13 Metis-M wire-guided and AT-14 Kornet semi-automatic laser beam-riding antitank guided missiles. Both missile types can also be fitted with thermobraic warheads for devastating anti-personnel effects within buildings, caves, et. al.;
30 self-propelled M1 Tunguska gun/missile systems for low-level, short-range air defense and light fire support (up to $500 million). Algeria's neighbor and sometime rival Morocco signed a December 2004 contract for 12 Tunguska systems
8 of Russia's advanced S-300 PMU-2 Favorit anti-air missile systems (aka. SA-10E, $1 billion);
S-300PMU2 Favorit
radar & launchers
(click to view full)According to eDefense Online, a S-300PMU2 Favorit battalion is equipped with a 30N6E2 fire-control radar, a 96L6E target-acquisition and designation radar, eight 5P85SE launchers, and a set of 48N6E2 missiles with a range of 200 km against aircraft and 40 km against ballistic missiles. Each battalion complex is designated 90Zh6E2. The system can engage six targets at a time with 12 missiles using its own 96L6 target-acquisition radar, at altitudes ranging anywhere from 35 feet (10m) off the deck to 90,000 feet (27km). In addition, the 83M6E2 regimental C2 system can support a mass engagement of 36 targets at a time.
The contract also includes unspecified work on Algeria's navy. According to Haze Gray, Algeria's Russian combatant ships include 2 Kilo Class submarines, 3 Koni class frigates, 3 Nanuchka class corvettes, and 11 Osa I and II Class missile boats (which may not be operable). Most entered service between 1975-1985, with the most modern ship being a Kilo Class sub that entered service in 1988. Repairs and upgrades had already begun on a limited during the 1990s, but more extensive refurbishment and upgrades are likely necessary.
Structuring the Deal
Tunguska M1 LLAD
(click to view full)The biggest issue hanging over the deal was a $4.7 billion debt outstanding from past purchases of Soviet arms. As the next section notes, buying advanced Russian arms is nothing new for Algeria. UPI notes that the logical question arose: if there was no money to pay the debt, how would Algeria pay for all of this new equipment?
Enter Russia's energy sector, in the persons of LUKoil CEO Vagit Alekperov, Gazprom chief Alexei Miller, and Igor Makarov of independent gas producer Itera. UPI believes the final arrangement is that Algeria will give gives Russian companies access to oil- and gas-rich regions, with the proceeds split between the producer and the Algerian government. The Algerian government is then bound to immediately transfer the revenues to Russian arms manufacturers, until such time as the debt is paid off.
AT-13 Metis-M ATGMMeanwhile, OPEC member Algeria develops more of her energy reserves, and the projects create local employment in the bargain. Indeed, the St. Petersburg Times reports that an $80 billion, 5-year program is underway aimed at boosting growth and drawing more investments to Algeria as it recovers from an extremely bloody civil war. That war against the Wahhabist/Salafist al-Qaeda affiliate GSPC and other Islamist terrorist groups has lasted over a decade and is still ongoing, but government successes over the last few years have sharply reduced the size of the threat.
The Morocco Times notes that Algeria has the world's seventh-largest natural gas reserves with 4.55 trillion cubic meters, and is the world's fourth-biggest gas exporter after Russia, Canada and Norway at 60 billion cubic meters per year. Russia, meanwhile, is the number one gas exporter to Europe, with about 26% of the market. By coordinating its export policies with number three exporter Algeria (about 10% of the European market), Russia may be able to increase its leverage within Europe, complicate the EU's efforts to diversify its sources of supply, and leverage that improved position into greater participation in and influence over Europe's pipeline projects.
Algeria's Appetite for Advanced Arms
MiG-29 Fulcrum
(click to view full)This level of advanced equipment is not altogether surprising. In 1999, Algerian President Abdel Aziz Boutefliqa announced a new military policy aimed at modernizing Algeria's army and shifting it toward a modernized, professional force. Yet military observers would note that modern equipment is hardly new to the Algerians.
Algeria had been a client for Soviet arms throughout the Cold War, and country data notes that they typically received and operated some of Russia's most advanced export equipment. The ANP was one of the first armies outside Eastern Europe to be equipped with the T-72 tank. Algeria also received the BMP-1 and BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicles, MiG-23 Flogger and MiG-25 Foxbat fighters, Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters, modern rapid-firing artillery, and SA-2 and SA-3 air defense missile systems.
Armed SU-24 Fencer
(click to view full)Algeria currently flies the lightweight MiG-29 Fulcrum fighter, and a previous UPI story noted that Algeria received 18 SU-30MK multi-role fighters in 2005, along with a $120 million deal for 22 of Russia's SU-24 Fencer tactical bombers that proved so popular in Chechnya. In 1999, Algeria also became one of the first customers for Russia's Smerch-M 300mmm multiple rocket launcher system.
In many ways, therefore, this purchasing wave is simply a continuation of what Algeria's military government is used to. Even so, there is one important way in which this proposed deal would represent a break with the recent past.
Moscow Defense Brief magazine editor Ruslan Pukhov noted to The Moscow Times that after the Soviet Union's breakup, Algeria's military contracts largely switched to firms in Belarus and the Ukraine. We'd add that rather than dealing with Russian firms, Algeria even worked closely with South Africa's ATE Aerospace to upgrade its Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters with new avionics, sensors, weapons, and logistics infrastructure. the result was the fully-modernized "Mi-24 Superhind Mk3".
"This [$4 billion] contract will be Russia's triumphant return to North Africa," said Pukhov. "In the coming years, Algeria will account for 20% of Russian's arms exports, while China and India will plummet from 70% to 50%" as a result of saturated markets and diversification of those of those countries' arms sources
-
hello,
@cvs
normalement oui ,de toute façon la version avec le canon de 105 peut bel et bien tirer sans s'arrêter...
It fires standard NATO tank ammunition including 2nd generation APFSDS, while stationary or on the move, against moving or stationary targets by day and night
http://www.otomelara.it/products/schedule.asp?id=prod_land_cio_centauro_ge
@starpom
la 3eme photo est un centauro alors que la 4eme est un PIRANHA III
et je dirais qu'un nouveau canon de 120 otan "low recoil force" est forcement plus puissant qu'un canon de 105 otan "low recoil-force"
@philippe
90 mm celle que vous aurez sur vos Piranha III.
CMI propose un 105 à l'export.
non ,c'est la nouvelle tourelle CT-CV / canon de 105 calibre 53..
pour la belgique c'est un pauvre 90mm ,tourelle LCTS/canon cockerill MK8
mais avec des munitions NG de MECAR ça aura les memes performances qu'un vieux 105 ...
90mm MK8 AMMUNITION
Specifically developed for the CMI 90mm MK8 turret, the MECAR APFSDS-T and HEP-T ammunition offer 105mm type performance for the lightweight 90mm MK8 turret. Fully safety certified by the US Army, the 90mm MK8 has been selected by the Belgian Army to replace the Leopard 1 MBT.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/ammunition/mecar/
tourelle LCTS sur PIRANHA II
amicalement.
-
le 8x8 le mieux armè d'europe le centauro 120 avec son canon de 120mm :shock:
je me demande bien si il y'aura une version du VBCI armè avec un canon de 105 ou 120 ,est ce que la tourelle CT-CV de CMI DEFENCE interesse l'armèe française ??
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
divers pays l'ont sélectionné, j'en conviens mais je doute que ça soit aussi solide que tu le prétends... fin moi en tout cas je vois déjà la bande d'alimentation naze et ton véhicule sans armement ... remémore toi surtout que la Belgique c'est l'aérotranspotabilité... ta tourelle là est certainement plus légère que les tourelles avec blindage et tout... là je me dis qu'ils ont privilégé le poids à la protection... j'ai peut-être tort ...
pour les photos... merci... purée même la version ambulance elle a ce truc amphibie... mrrr ah oui c'est quoi le blindage dont tu parles là... caractéristiques et tout ça :) merci d 'avance
c'est les plaque que l'on voient boulonnées sur la caisse du véhicules, c'est un blindage passif type "blindage rapportès/appliquè armour in english"
pour la tourelle elle peut surement encaisser les munitions calibre 5.56 ou 7.62, de toute façon si le vèhicule est touchè par des munitions gros calibre (+25/30mm) il en sera detruit avec ou son tourelle conventionelle !!
une video du PIRANHA IIIC
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
pour le KIT, je crois qu'il interesse surtout des unitès comme l'infanterie de marine ,les marines US ...les marines espagnols.... ect des piranha IIIC de l'infanterie de marine espagnole,tu peux remarquer le blindage type appliquè armour ... http://www.armyrecognition.com/europe/Espagne/National_Day/National_day_2004/pictures/Piranha_III_Spain_01.jpg http://www.armyrecognition.com/europe/Espagne/National_Day/National_day_2004/pictures/Piranha_III_Command_Post_Spain_01.jpg http://www.armyrecognition.com/europe/Espagne/National_Day/National_day_2004/pictures/Piranha_III_Ambulance_Spain_01.jpg pour les tourelles tèlèopèrèes ,apres la belqique ,c'est la tchèquie et le portugal qui l'ont sèlèctionnès donc ça doit etre surement high tech et très solide !!
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
et après on dit que chuis un taré qu ne veut que des leo 2A... un coup de RPG et on en parle plus de ses tourelles c'est vraiment du n'importe quoi... mrrr
ah question un peu plus ch*****... quelqu'un sait s'il y a des blindages additionels sur ce genre d'engins comme avec le styker américain? si oui, aurez vous des photos?
IDR de mars 2005 parle d'un blindage modulaire sophistiquè et une grande protection contre les mines
c'est des PIRANHAs III "C" donc ça ressemblera a ça avec les tourelles FN ARROWS/ELBIT ORCWS 30/CMI LCTS /version ambulance....ect
PIRANHA IIIC/tourelle canon de 25mm ,tu peux l'imaginer avec une tourelle FN ARROWS ;) a noter que la version belge n'aura pas le kit pour les operations amphibies comme sur la photo de la version ambulance...
VERSION AMBULANCE como danois je crois
enjoy :)
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
oui tout a fait ,j'ai confondu les versions 1/2 du DINGO avec l'IVECO LMV le DINGO 1 A presque le meme poids au combat QUE le MLV ( 8.5t et 7T respectivement) alors que le DINGO 2 A POIDS MAX AU COMBAT DE 11.9T le dingo 1 est basè sur chassis unimog u1500 alors que la version 2 sur unimog u5000 http://www.army-technology.com/projects/future/ http://www.kmweg.com/gb/frame.php?page=30 c'est quoi cette tourelle ROSS ?? c'est pas la FN ARROWS ?? a noter que les PIRANHA IIIC belges seront equipè avec le moteur US CATERPILLAR C9 de 400hp et une transmission ZF
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
je me demande bien pourquoi les belges ont selectionnès le LMV d'IVECO et le DINGO 2 de KMW, alors qu'il ont le meme role et performance ?? http://www.mil.be/cav/subject/index.asp?LAN=fr&FILE=subjectmenu&ID=459&MENU=1101&PAGE=1 http://www.mil.be/cav/subject/index.asp?LAN=fr&FILE=subjectmenu&ID=459&MENU=449&PAGE=1
-
-
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
peut etre que les PIRANHA III/ORCWS 30 belges ne seront pas armès avec des missiles antichar, c'est simplement une option d'ailleur meme les VBCI français sont armès avec un (simple) canon de 25mm !!!
l'avantage de cette tourelle tèlèopèrèe est qu'elle legere,ne penetre pas la (caisse) du PIRANHA ce qui libere un grand volume,en plus le PIRANHA III/ORCWS est aèrotransportable sur C-130 hercule .
seront ils armès avec des canons ATK MK 44 ou MUSER MK 30 aucune idèe les gars ???
:arrow:
Defesanet 02 Fevereiro 2006
ELBIT 02 Fevereiro 2006
ELBIT Systems Selected to Supply 30 mm Unmanned Turrets and Opto-Electronic Systems for the Belgian Armored Infantry Vehicle Program
Haifa,Israel, February 2, 2006 - Elbit Systems Ltd. reported today that it was selected to supply various systems for the Belgian Armored Infantry Vehicle Program.
The anticipated contract value for Elbit Systems' portion of the Program is expected to be in an amount material to Elbit Systems, with deliveries to take place between 2007 - 2012.
This Program is related to a co-operation between Elbit Systems and the Swiss company Mowag, a part of the General Dynamics European Land Combat Systems Group. Mowag was selected by the Belgian Government to be the prime contractor for the supply of the Piranha III vehicles for the Program. The Program currently covers 138 vehicles out of a potential total of 242 vehicles (See box below).
Elbit Systems' portion of the Program includes the delivery of 30 mm unmanned turrets and various opto-electronic and electronic sub-systems. Finalization of the contract to Elbit Systems is expected within the coming weeks.
Joseph Ackerman, President and CEO of Elbit Systems said: "We are proud to be selected to take part in this important project for the Belgian Army. The co-operation between Mowag and Elbit Systems reflects the level of recognition we have achieved with our customers, end users and business partners worldwide. The selection of our unmanned turrets constitutes a breakthrough in an emerging international market emanating from a shift in the modern battlefield.
These systems implement the Elbit Systems Group's integrative and comprehensive abilities as well as our understanding of the modern combat arena."
Mr. Ackerman added, "We hope that Mowag's selection of our solution for a major NATO member such as Belgium will serve as a case in point for other potential customers in Europe and across the globe."
New Structure Belgian Army - No more tracked vehicles
On 27 january 2006, Belgian government approved the new acquisiton program for AFV 8x8. This law concern the land component modernization. Contract was given to Swiss company Mowag. Piranha IIIC answer better to several users requirement. Complet line of vehicles is formed by seven vehicles that will replace all tracked armoured vehicles currently in use (Leopard, AIFV and M113):
99 APC to transport 10 soldiers;
32 AFV equipped with 30 mm gun;
40 AFV equipped with 90 mm gun,
24 Command Post;
12 ambulances;
17 Armoured recovery and maintenance, and
18 engineer vehicles.
Also will be ordered armoured trucks and jeeps (LMV) from the italian company IVECO.
Source: Armyrecognition - Belgian
27 January 2006
http://www.defesanet.com.br/afv/mowag_30_elbit_e.htm
PIRANHA IV( et non la version III ) equipè ave la nouvelle tourelle ELBIT ORCWS 30
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
la belgique a selectionnè la tourelle tèlèopèrèe ARROWS developè par FN HERSTAL elle sera armè avec une mitrailleuse lourde de 12.7mm
http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm
pour l'autre ARROW il sagit d'un systeme ABM(anti balistic missile) developè par israel et les usa
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/surface_missiles/arrow/Arrow.html
-
Armée belge
dans Europe
242 MOWAG PIRANHA IIIC 8x8 Vehicles for Belgium
Brussels, Belgium - On January 27, 2006 the Belgian Government announced that the MOWAG PIRANHA IIIC had been selected from five candidates for the delivery of up to 242 vehicles and related logistics support, with a total contract value of over € 500 million, for the Belgian Army's Armoured Infantry Vehicle Program. This sales success in Belgium represents the largest single order ever awarded from a European NATO member in the history of the Swiss technology-based company. Deliveries will commence in 2007 and will extend to 2015 for the total quantity including options.
In July 2005 the Belgian Ministry of Defence had announced the procurement Program for new Armoured Infantry Vehicle (AIV). This Program sets a corner stone to transform the Belgian Army into a lighter, more deployable, lethal, survivable, and sustainable force. Key requirements for the AIV included on- and off road mobility, crew comfort and safety, vehicle versatility, a high level of protection for the vehicle crews against mines and ballistic weapons, and integration of various weapon stations-, electronic warning and communication systems.
With the worldwide operating PIRANHA IIIC 8x8, the technology-based company from Kreuzlingen, Switzerland offers a proven product, which fulfils this high-ranking requirement of protection, mobility, and mission flexibility. Main vehicle sub-systems include the CMI 90mm Turret, the ELBIT 30mm Overhead Weapon Station, the FN Herstal ARROWS 12,7mm Overhead Weapon Station, all with OIP electro-optical aiming Systems, the THALES Belgium Communication System, Threat detection Systems for Lasers and Small Arms (OIP) and the Pearson Surface Mine Plough and Dozer Blade. A main focus was paid by MOWAG to offer a product with high commonality and compatibility within the AIV fleet itself, other vehicles of the Belgium Army and NATO countries. PIRANHA III 8x8 vehicles are in series production since 1997 and continuously developed to include the most modern technology available on the market. A vast number of specific vehicle variants based on the PIRANHA III 8x8 have already been built for various customers including NATO and European Countries USA, Canada, Denmark, Spain, Ireland, Sweden and Switzerland including the variants specified by the Belgium customer thus giving the PIRANHA solution offered a very high production readiness. The 242 PIRANHA IIIC 8x8 will be delivered in seven variants to solve specific operational tasks: APC, C30 , Direct Fire Capability, Command Post, Engineering, Ambulance and Recovery.
MOWAG's CEO, Simon Honess stated: “We are extremely proud to have received this most significant award which we believe reflects the careful attention we paid to the requirements of the Belgian Army and to the Belgian national and regional objectives for industry and commerce, together with the capability and value for money represented by PIRANHA and its system support. This now gives us the opportunity to serve the Belgian Army in a long term relationship, and together with the main Belgian Suppliers CMI, OIP, FN, THALES and other industrial team members, to generate industrial benefit across the diverse Belgian industrial base. This contract will also add further to the quantity of the latest specification of PIRANHA III vehicles in service with EU and NATO forces world wide, and will strengthen our market position.”
Delivery of the first 138 vehicles to the Belgian Army will take place from 2007 to 2012. Optional second and third batch vehicles would be delivered from 2012 to 2015. Initial vehicles, MOWAG Driveline and Suspension systems and other components will be manufactured at MOWAG in Kreuzlingen, Switzerland with the follow-on hull welding and vehicle assembly being conducted at the facilities of the MOWAG partners Jonckheere and CMI in Belgium.
The MOWAG proposal further includes a comprehensive Industrial Benefit Programme worth 100% of the contract value in Belgian value added combining direct work, semi direct effort as well as a significant commitment to other industrial sectors through indirect benefits. The program is proportionally balanced between Flemish and Wallonian companies and will span over the next 12 years.
More than 3000 PIRANHA III based vehicles are in service with or in production for NATO and European countries Denmark, Spain, USA, Canada, Ireland, Sweden and Switzerland. The “PIRANHA Group Europe” was formed in 2005 and it is anticipated that Belgium will now join this group as a future user of the PIRANHA vehicle.
http://www.mowag.ch/En/10_PresseEn/10-01_Frameset.htm
il y'aura donc une version armè avec un canon de 90 ,une autre avec une tourelle tèlèopèrèe FN ARROW 12.7 ,l'article parle d'une version armè avec une tourelle "ELBIT 30mm Overhead Weapon Station" OWS sagit il d'une tourelle tèlèopèreè semblable a une OWS developè par RAFAEL ?? avec quel canon sera elle armè MK44 bushmaster II, MAUSER MK 30 ???
voici une tourelle rafael OWS sur BMP 1 et sur PANDUR II
http://www.rafael.co.il/web/rafnew/products/land-rcws30.htm
-
-
-
Tu as parfois de drole de raisonnement ;) Mais bon l'Espagne n'est pas particulièrement menacé... Par contre elle a parfaitement compris qu'une marine forte et bien équipé était un atout indéniable pour exister diplomatiquement sur la scene internationale (de façon toute relative bien entendu) et faire respecter ses interets.
peut etre qu'ils ont peur de (la menace marocaine) en afrique du nord,n'oublions pas que l'espagne a des petites colonies au nord du maroc "ceuta et melila "..
pour les LEO 2E l'espagne va acquerir 219 et non 320...
Spain has ordered 219 Leopard 2E (a version of the 2A6 with greater armour protection), 16 recovery tanks (CREC) and 4 training vehicles. The first 30 are being built by KMW and the rest are being license-built in Spain by General Dynamics, Santa Barbara Sistemas (GDSBS). The first tank was handed over to the Spanish Army in June 2004 and deliveries should complete in 2008.
-
merci les gars :D donc le EH 101 se situe dans une classe intermediare entre un CH 47 et un NH 90 !! thanks.
[Liban] Archive
dans Politique etrangère / Relations internationales
Posté(e)
c'est quoi au juste la formation golani ? une unitè des FS ,une brigade para ,une division ??? je voudrais aussi des infos sur (l'unitè) giv'ati ?? merci d'avance .