Gravity
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Au rabais, au rabais, n'exagérons rien: Poutine s'est pas fait tondre non plus. Ce contrat (ou plutôt cette série de contrats énergétiques) créent du manque à gagner, c'est pas de la vente à perte...
Ce n’est pas les chinois - au niveau actuel - qui pourront lui offrir, de pair, la technologie vitale et le savoir-faire indispensable pour ‘uniquement maintenir sa production et ses installations d’extraction’. Donc bel et bien au rabais… ;)
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Économiquement la Russie déguste vraiment. Je me demande si elle va tenir longtemps à ce rythme-là. En fait elle souffre bien plus que ce que je n'avait pensé.
Bein non !
Y en a qui se figurer - persuadés droit dans leurs bottes - que cela allait se passer autrement. L’Ours Russe :lol: , avec l’indéfectible titan Poutine aux manettes hein…
Ce qu’il y a de marrant dans toute cette histoire - sauf pour le petit peuple russe et son avenir compromis,mais on a les dirigeants qu’on mérite -, c’est les chinois qui n’ont jamais été aussi heureux. Tu m’étonnes avec autant d’énergie soldé - en vain - au rabais.
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US, Turkey reportedly close to agreement on joint mission against ISIS
Published December 01, 2014
The U.S. and Turkey are close to an agreement on a joint military action against the Islamic State militant group in northern Syria, according to a published report.
The Wall Street Journal, citing officials from both countries, reported that the proposed deal would allow the U.S. and its coalition partners access to Turkish air bases to use as launch points for air strikes. The agreement would also provide for a protected zone along part of the Syria-Turkey border that would be off limits to Syrian government aircraft and provide protection for moderate Syrian rebels and refugees fleeing the country's bloody, three-year-long civil war.
Turkey has already agreed to allow 2,000 moderate Syrian rebels to be trained on its own soil, and has sent members of its special forces to northern Iraq to train Kurdish Peshmerga fighters.
The Journal reported that Turkey had proposed a far more extensive no-fly zone over northern Syria, only to be rebuffed by the Obama administration, which said that the proposal would constitute an act of war by the U.S. against the Damascus government of Bashar al-Assad.
“We are in discussions with the Turks. Right now we don’t believe a buffer zone is the best way relieve the humanitarian crisis there in Northern Syria,” Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said Monday.
U.S. officials told the paper that talks between the two nations were still in a preliminary stage, and a final deal may not be agreed upon for weeks.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan met with Vice President Joe Biden in Turkey last week for discussions about the civil war in Syria and the rise of the Islamic State, better known as ISIS. The Al Qaeda-inspired terror group's months-long offensive in northern Syria has helped push between 1.5 million and 1.8 million refugees into Turkey, with millions more arrivals possible.
NATO officials told the Journal that Turkey could justify opening its bases to coalition jets under Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, which provides a right to collective self-defense. Technically, the ongoing strikes in Syria are being carried out in support of operations in Iraq based on Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi ’s Article 51 letter invoking collective self-defense.
News of the progress in talks between the U.S. and Turkey comes after Syrian activists said the U.S.-led coalition targeted ISIS' de facto capital of Raqqa in northeastern Syria with as many as 30 airstrikes Sunday.
The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the strikes also targeted the Division 17 air base, which the ISIS seized earlier this year from Iraqi government forces.
The U.S. military did not confirm the airstrikes to the Associated Press.
The monitoring group, which relies on a network of activists inside Syria, reported at least 30 coalition strikes in all. The Local Coordination Committees, an activist collective, also confirmed the airstrikes. Neither group had casualty figures.
The American-led coalition began targeting ISIS militants in Syria in September, expanding an aerial campaign already hitting the extremist group in Iraq.
Many of the U.S. airstrikes in Syria have targeted ISIS fighters who are attacking the predominantly Kurdish town of Kobani on the Turkish border.
The Observatory said that at least 50 ISIS militants were killed on Saturday and early Sunday in clashes with Kurds and in coalition airstrikes. Eleven Kurdish fighters also were killed, according to the Observatory.
Idris Nassan, a Kurdish official from Kobani, said by telephone that tens of ISIS militants were killed, but he did not have a concrete figure.
IS has been attacking Kobani since mid-September. The militants' offensive has bogged down, and the Syrian Kurds — backed by their Iraqi brethren with heavy weapons — appear to have seized the momentum and to have begun pushing the jihadis back.
The report of the strikes came as a new Pentagon report revealed that the U.S. is conducting roughly 85 percent of the multi-national airstrikes against ISIS in both countries.
FoxNews
U.S., Turkey Narrow Differences on Islamic State Fight
Recent Visit by Biden Coincided With Islamic State Strategy Discussions
By Adam Entous
Updated Dec. 1, 2014 1:40 a.m. ET
WASHINGTON— U.S. and Turkish officials have narrowed their differences over a joint military mission in Syria that would give the U.S. and its coalition partners permission to use Turkish air bases to launch strike operations against Islamic State targets across northern Syria, according to officials in both countries.
As part of the deal, U.S. and Turkish officials are discussing the creation of a protected zone along a portion of the Syrian border that would be off-limits to Assad regime aircraft and would provide sanctuary to Western-backed opposition forces and refugees.
U.S. and coalition aircraft would use Incirlik and other Turkish air bases to patrol the zone, ensuring that rebels crossing the border from Turkey don’t come under attack there, officials said.
Turkey had proposed a far more extensive no-fly zone across one-third of northern Syria, according to officials. That idea was, however, a nonstarter for the Obama administration, which told Ankara that something so invasive would constitute an act of war against the Assad regime.
In contrast to a formal no-fly zone, the narrower safe zone along the border under discussion wouldn’t require any strikes to take out Syrian air defenses. Instead, the U.S. and its coalition partners could send a quiet warning to the Assad regime to stay away from the zone or risk retaliation.
From Ankara’s perspective, another impetus for a safe zone along the border would be to protect opposition fighters who will be trained in Turkey, as well as to safeguard opposition supply lines into northern Syria, officials said.
Turkey has agreed to allow the training of an initial 2,000 opposition fighters on Turkish soil and has sent Turkish special forces to northern Iraq to train Peshmerga fighters there.
The U.S. doesn’t envisage any air exclusionary zone going as far south as the city of Aleppo, a stronghold of the opposition Free Syrian Army, at least initially.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan met with Vice President Joe Biden in Ankara a week ago and urged the Obama administration to do more to rein in Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.
At the same time, Mr. Erdogan made clear that Turkey was increasingly worried about Islamic State advances in northern Syria, which could, within hours, push hundreds of thousands of additional Syrian refugees across the border into Turkey.
In response to a major new offensive by Islamic State, Turkey could face a flood of two million or three million additional refugees, far more than Ankara can absorb, Turkish officials have told their American counterparts. Turkey is already hosting between 1.5 million and 1.8 million Syrian refugees.
The narrowing of differences between the U.S. and Turkey was discussed last week during a White House National Security Council meeting, though U.S. officials stressed that talks were still at a preliminary stage and could take weeks or longer.
U.S. and Turkish officials said the two sides are no longer discussing creation of the large no-fly zone that was initially proposed by Ankara, stretching from the Iraqi border to northern Latakia on the Mediterranean coast.
To justify opening its bases to the U.S. and its coalition partners for strikes against Islamic State, Turkey is considering following Iraq’s lead by writing a letter to the United Nations invoking its right to collective self-defense under Article 51 of the U.N. charter, North Atlantic Treaty Organization officials said.
Such a letter from Turkey could clear the way for some NATO allies to join the military campaign in Syria, the officials said.
Most coalition airstrikes in Syria are, by definition, being carried out in support of operations in Iraq based on Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi ’s Article 51 letter invoking collective self-defense.
U.S. and Turkish officials said a more limited air exclusionary zone along the border with Turkey could be similar to the de facto no-fly zone that has taken shape over the Syrian city of Kobani, where U.S. war planes are supporting Kurdish fighters battling Islamic State militants.
Turkey has signaled that it could insert forces on the ground in northern Syria to help identify Islamic State targets, but U.S. officials aren’t sure if the Turkish military has that capability.
For the U.S., the risk in creating even a small de facto no-fly zone would be the possibility of a challenge by the Assad regime. The U.S. passed messages to the Assad regime not to contest coalition aircraft at the start of the airstrikes in Syria in September. So far, the regime hasn’t challenged U.S. aircraft, according to U.S. officials.
Turkey presented its most detailed blueprint yet for creation of an air exclusionary zone during recent talks with retired Marine Gen. John Allen, the U.S. special presidential envoy for the global coalition to counter Islamic State militant group, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.
Officials at the White House and the Pentagon have long resisted the idea of a no-fly zone because of concerns that it could lead to conflict with Mr. Assad, who uses his fleet of helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft to attack Aleppo and other population centers in northern Syria.
So far, Turkey has only allowed the U.S. military to fly unmanned surveillance flights out of Incirlik, according to U.S. officials.
Syrian opposition officials said the new proposal wouldn’t require the U.S. to neutralize Syria’s integrated air defense system. If Syria challenged the zone, then the U.S. and its coalition partners could use so-called standoff weapons, fired from outside Syrian territory, to keep Syrian regime aircraft out, opposition officials said.
In a 2013 letter to congressional leaders, the chairman of the U.S. military’s Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, said establishing a no-fly zone would require the U.S. to shoot down Syrian aircraft and to strike airfields.
The regime could then compensate for the loss of airspace by relying more heavily on surface-to-surface weaponry, such as artillery and rockets, to attack anti-Assad rebels, Gen. Dempsey wrote.
The Wall Street Journal
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Sauf qu'en votant, ils légitimeraient une annexion qui se met lentement en place. Mais je suis admiratif devant le caractère machiavélique de ce plan : l'annexion via la démocratie. Du grand art.
Mauvaise langue, sournois. -_-
... Et c'est en fait la non participation palestinienne qui l'a facilitée. Si les palestiniens paralysaient la vie politique municipale de Jérusalem, Israël serait obligée de redessiner les frontières municipales.
A d'autres... <_<
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Il milite pour un accès des juifs au Mont du Temple. C'est tout.
- Après la construction du 3ème temple est prévu dans les prophéties juives et se fera sur le Mont du Temple. Mais ça sera à l'époque messianique.
Cette organisation milite, comme tout juifs religieux, pour la construction du 3ème temple c'est-à-dire par l’avènement du Messie. C'est un but collectif du peuple juif. Mais cela se fera uniquement à l'époque messianique.
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Sur ceux bonne fête d’Halloween.
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Le rouquin c'est le rabbin qu'on vient de tenter de tuer. Cet "extrémiste" selon nos médias qui veut détruire Al Aqsa est en train de prier avec des musulmans. A bon entendeur (Gravity).
Que c’est mignon ! <_<
https://www.templeinstitute.org/about.htm
Je crois que l’on appelle cela : Vouloir foutre la me… Avec un ‘M’ majuscule de taille galactique.
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Donc, si c'était juste une synagogue, ça ne te poserait aucun problème c'est ça?
Ou bien ça déchaînerait quand même les forces du Mordor et de l'Antéchrist.
Oui ! Mais nous savons tous que le projet final (Selon le dogme religieux - qui fait seul loi aux yeux des croyants -) n’est en rien cela. Les autres (Arabes) sont peut-être bêtes mais certainement pas débiles à ce point.
Non cela sauverait les seuls croyants (La reconstruction du Temple et la venue du messie), ceux du peuple élu, et conduirez aux enfers tous les autres, déjà damnés de naissance.
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Le rabbin qui s'est fait tirer dessus n'est en rien un extrémiste ou quoique ce soit ... Il milite pour que les juifs puissent prier au Mont du Temple, qui est je le rappelle le lieu le plus saint du judaïsme.
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Le très gentil monsieur veut bien plus que simplement prier. Il veut juste réaliser ça (Même si il ne méritait aucunement qu’on lui tire dessus froidement).
Le fait de comparer un terroriste qui vient de commettre une tentative de meurtre avec un homme qui aimerait prier sur le lieu le plus saint de sa religion est quelque chose de grave pour moi.
Cela démontre bien le "deux poids deux mesures" pour toute situation où Israël est impliquée.
Encore - et toujours - le récurrent syndrome Calimero ou comment renverser la chose. -_-
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Peut-etre, mais ça reste mieux que pas de culte du tout pour une partie des croyants.
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Bah y a ‘le Mur’ non ? La gourmandise est un très vilain défaut...
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Pas nécessairement. Certaines organisations veulent construire une synagogue. Et l'institution musulmane qui gère le Mont du Temple s'y oppose et s'y est toujours opposé. Entre judeinrein (situatuation actuelle du Mont du Temple) et totalement judaïsée (situation défendue par certains extrémistes juifs, mais à laquelle s'oppose la grande majorité des orthodoxes) il doit bien y avoir un compromis.
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Dommage mais dans le programme du grand destin cosmique ça ne marche pas. Et les idées messianiques (De la majorité des croyants) sont les seuls produits authentifiés, reconnues par tous.
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Lui n'a pas commis de tentative de meurtre. Je ne suis pas de son bord politique et je ne suis pas religieux, mais je ne vois pas au nom de quoi on interdirait aux juifs de prier sur le Mont du Temple.
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En rasant, en passant, la Mosquée Al-Aqsa… En voilà une chic idée pour arranger les choses… <_<
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Quoi que en cas d'accord en Décembre, cela va être plus simple pour la signature finale étant donné que les Rafales Qataris seraient tous construits à Mérignac.
Apparemment, pas de transfert de technologie et d'assemblage local de quoi que ce soit avec les émirs du Golfe.
;)
Soyons plus précis : les émirs du Qatar, du Koweït, de Bahreïn et d’Oman. Les deux autres très gros (Parents) se chargeront du reste par leviers de pression au moment des négos, dont le transfert Tech par méthodes d’absorption progressive (But) et de l’entretien avec des sites dédiés locaux de plus en plus autonomes - c’est un deal implicite entre eux -.
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Une démocratie ne veut pas dire que la majorité peut opprimé la minorité, ni l'écarter complètement du pouvoir. En gros dans une société communautaire comme en Syrie et en Irak, il faut que toutes les communautés puissent trouver leur place dans le système politique. Ca ne veut pas dire que les allaouites en Syrie ou les sunnites en Irak auront autant de pouvoir que la communauté majoritaire, mais elles ne peuvent pas non plus être complètement éjecté comme c'est actuellement le cas en Irak.
Une démocratie ne veut pas dire non plus que parce qu’ils sont issus d’une minorité ils doivent automatiquement disposer de postes dédiés. Ils ne peuvent obtenir des postes qu’aux mérites de leurs qualifications, rien d’autre, dans un unique dessin servir toute la communauté nationale sans aucun parti pris sectaire.
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Je suis d'accord, je l'ai déjà dis mais Bachar est une des principales sources du problème EI. Tant qu'il restera au pouvoir la guerre civile continuera, et l'EI à besoin du chaos en Syrie pour prospérer.
Ça ne veut pas dire qu'il faut attaquer le régime comme le souhaiterai la Turquie. Il faut négocier avec la communauté allaouite, la Russie et l'Iran pour assurer leurs intérêts même avec le départ de Bachar et s'assurer que le pouvoir ne soit pas accaparé par les sunnites.
C’est là où réside le nœud stricto sensu du problème.
Si l’on se réfère aux quotas des groupes ethnico-religieux de la population qui constituent ce pays et que l’on y applique demain une élection régulière. Les alaouites ne peuvent pas avoir ‘un partage du pouvoir’ avec les sunnites. Ils sont une minorité infinitésimale. Et il n’y aucune raison que les sunnites acceptent un seul instant de demeurer encore sous leur coupe comme depuis 44 dernières années.
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De la bonne guerre asymétrique. Où la panacée du merdier dans toute sa splendeur. :(
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La position de la ville n'est pas tenable. Devant l'EIIL, qui attaque, derriere la Turquie qui empeche tout ravitaillement... si la ville ne tombe pas aujourd'hui elle tombera demain, ou apres demain.
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Les stratèges US font le même constat. -_-
U.S. officials: ISIS will capture Kobani, but it's not a big concern to usBy Holly Yan and Elise Labott, CNN
October 8, 2014 -- Updated 0939 GMT (1739 HKT)
(CNN) -- The key Syrian border city of Kobani will soon fall to ISIS, but that's not a major U.S. concern, several senior U.S. administration officials said.
If Kobani falls, ISIS would control a complete swath of land between its self-declared capital of Raqqa, Syria, and Turkey -- a stretch of more than 100 kilometers (62 miles).
The U.S. officials said the primary goals are not to save Syrian cities and towns, but to go after ISIS' senior leadership, oil refineries and other infrastructure that would curb the terror group's ability to operate -- particularly in Iraq.
Saving Iraq is a more strategic goal for several reasons, the officials said. First, the United States has a relationship with the Iraqi government. By contrast, the Obama administration wants Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to step down.
Another reason: The United States has partners on the ground in Iraq, including Iraqi forces and Kurdish fighters known as Peshmerga.
But on Tuesday, a top U.N. official implored world leaders to take action as Syrian Kurdish fighters defending Kobani are dangerously outmatched.
"They have been defending themselves with great courage. But they are now very close to not being able to do so," said Staffan de Mistura, the U.N. special envoy for Syria.
"They are fighting with normal weapons, whereas the ISIS has got tanks and mortars," he said. "The international community needs to defend them. The international community cannot sustain another city falling under ISIS."
The U.S. plan on ISIS
The U.S. goal is to first beat back ISIS in Iraq, then eliminate some of its leadership and resources in Syria, the U.S. administration officials said.
"It's obviously horrific to watch what's going on the ground, but it's important for the United States, for us to also step back and remember our strategic objective as it relates to our efforts and our engagement in Syria," State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki told reporters.
According to the U.S. administration officials, if all goes as planned, by the time they are ready to turn their attention to Syria, some of the Syrian opposition will be trained enough to tackle ISIS in earnest. The U.S. has been undertaking efforts to arm and train moderate Syrian opposition forces, who are locked in a fight against both ISIS, the al-Assad regime, and a variety of other armed groups.
But training Syrian rebels could take quite a long time.
"It could take years, actually," retired Gen. John Allen said last week. "Expectations need to be managed."
The United States also wants Turkey to do more, the officials said. The administration is urging Turkey to at least fire artillery at ISIS targets across the border.
But the Turkish reluctance, the officials say, is wrapped up in the complex relationship with their own Kurds and the idea that they don't want to help any of the Kurds in any way.
Hundreds of strikes, millions of dollars
The United States and its allies have made at least 271 airstrikes in Iraq and 116 in Syria.
The cost? More than $62 million for just the munitions alone.
The effect? Negligible, some say, particularly in Iraq.
One by one, the cities have fallen like dominoes: Hit, Albu Aytha, Falluja.
And standing from the western outskirts of Baghdad, ISIS is now within pointing distance.
"That's DAIISH right over there," said Iraqi Brig. Gen. Ali Abdel Hussain Kazim, using the Arabic acronym for ISIS.
The militants' proximity to the capital is cause for concern. If ISIS manages to infiltrate and launch attacks in Baghdad or its green zone, the results could be disastrous.
Kazim said ISIS has not been able to move from his position in Anbar province to Baghdad. But another brigadier general said that's not even the biggest threat.
The real danger to the Iraqi capital, Brig. Gen. Mohamed al-Askari said, is from ISIS sympathizers in the city.
"They are a gang," he said. "They deploy among civilians. They disappear into the civilian population and camouflage themselves."
Avec des objectifs précis plus vastes - semblant rationnels - à bien plus long terme.
Allen: 'Important moment' for anti-ISIS coalition
By Elise Labott and Laura Koran, CNN
October 1, 2014 -- Updated 2332 GMT (0732 HKT)
Washington (CNN) -- The man tapped to coordinate the U.S.-led coalition against ISIS told CNN there is an opportunity for broad cooperation in the fight, even as the countries involved struggle to define their roles.
"This is an opportunity," Retired Gen. John Allen said Wednesday. "It's actually an important moment where so many countries from so many different backgrounds share that view [that ISIS poses a threat to the region], that this is an opportunity to create partnership across those lines of effort that would achieve real effect."
Gen. Allen sat down with CNN for an exclusive interview just before he headed overseas to meet with members of the coalition.
During that interview, they also discussed the role Iran's government might play in taking on the terrorist organization, sometimes referred to as ISIL or the Islamic State.
"We're not going to contemplate a bilateral coalition with Iran," the retired Marine general said. "But Iran has deep interests and relationships in Iraq, and ISIL is a threat to Iran's interests as well."
Gen. Allen said Iran can play a constructive role providing support to Iraqis and "creating an opportunity for the new Abadi government to be a government of all Iraqis, not just of Shia Iraqis, not ultimately of Sunni or Kurdish Iraqis, but all Iraqis."
One government that's not welcome in the effort -- Syria.
"Our policy is very clear and that there should be, in the end, in Syria a political outcome," said Gen. Allen. But "[syrian] President Assad won't be part of it, frankly."
Despite the administration's insistence that it will not cooperate with the Assad regime, the U.S. military has been conducting airstrikes against terrorist targets inside Syria since early last week.
The U.S. is also undertaking efforts to arm and train moderate Syrian opposition forces, who are locked in a fight against both ISIS, the Assad regime, and a variety of other armed groups.
But the process of training those forces will not be a quick one.
"It could take years," said Allen. "But the process for getting that unfolded is occurring right now."
"Expectations need to be managed," Allen added.
But then what will success look like in Iraq and Syria?
The endgame Gen. Allen envisions is this: "Territorially intact and sovereign Iraq, governed by the government in Baghdad, that governs all Iraqis, not just one sect, not just one confession."
"And in Syria," he continued,"we're seeking to create the capacity within the Free Syrian elements and the Syrian opposition so that, first of all, they can defend themselves from the Assad regime and from the other al Qaeda oriented organizations in the battle space." Gen. Allen believes that will give the moderate opposition room to achieve the long-sought "political solution."
Coalition building is not new to General Allen. During his time in the military, he served as deputy commander in Iraq's Anbar province and as deputy commander for U.S. Central Command. He was also the commander of ISAF forces in Afghanistan from 2011 to 2013.
There, he worked to build relationships with Sunni tribal leaders, known as the Anbar Awakening, which was credited with helping turn the tide against al Qaeda in Iraq.
He told CNN he is confident a similar rift will occur this time between Sunni tribes and ISIS.
"The one thing I know for sure is just as I learned by watching al Qaeda work on the ground in al Anbar in '07 is that there will come the time when ISIS cannot tolerate the tribal structure within ISIS territory because that tribal structure is in direct opposition to the full exertion of ISIS influence over the population, and ISIS will turn on the tribes as sure as the sun will come tomorrow."
"So the tribes recognized this in a very real way," Gen. Allen said, "and I think within their own capabilities we're already seeing tribes that are rising up against ISIS. We're already seeing tribes that are coordinating with the other elements within the Iraqi security forces to achieve effect against ISIS. And there are tribes out there ready to go."
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Ça permettra à Erdogan de reprendre l'armée en main en jouant sur le côté "nous sommes entourés d'ennemis".
Pourquoi ce n'est pas déjà fait ? Je pense que c'est déjà plié depuis un bon moment. Erdogan président (Sultan) au suffrage universel - post scriptum : avec l'assentiment de la majorité du peuple - ...
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... l'armée irakienne n a pas fait le poids malgré du super matos...
C’est surjoué sans doute… -_-
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L ONU demande un intervention terrestre a Kobane !
Il y a urgence j espère que la Turquie va reagir ils sont sur place !
Où est passé le Poutine Véto ? Je vois que ce n'est pas le conseil de sécurité. En définitive cette déclaration n'a pas la moindre importance.
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En plus l'armé Turque est une armée de conscrits. Problématique vis à vis de l'opinion publique.
Mais en même temps je croyais que le gouv turque était plus interventionniste que ça ?
En fait ils considèrent qu’il faut extraire le mal à la racine et ne pas simplement être les gentils dindons de la farce par des frappes à usage cosmétique.
Turkey willing to put troops in Syria 'if others do their part,' Prime Minister says
By Mick Krever, CNN
October 6, 2014 -- Updated 1846 GMT (0246 HKT)
(CNN) -- Turkey would be willing to put its troops on the ground in Syria "if others dos their part," Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in an interview that aired Monday.
"We are ready to do everything if there is a clear strategy that after ISIS, we can be sure that our border will be protected. We don't want the regime anymore on our border pushing people against -- towards Turkey. We don't want other terrorist organizations to be active there."
"We want this humanitarian policy on the other side of the border. Second: military strategy, security. If there is there any threat against our national security, we will take all the measures -- all the measures."
Turkey, Syria's northern neighbor, has been central to the civil war there since it began over three years ago. Then-Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan broke with his longtime ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, to support Syria's opposition.
Ever since, the government has been trying to convince the international community to do more to stop al-Assad.
U.S. President Barack Obama, long wary of becoming involved, has become convinced that he must intervene in the Syrian war, but only to stop ISIS, not to go after the leader he nonetheless says long ago lost the legitimacy to govern.
'Our approach should be comprehensive'
"We shouldn't be separating pre-ISIS and post-ISIS Syria," Davutoglu told Amanpour. "From the first early days of the crisis until now, no other country did more than Turkey; what Turkey did against the attacks, brutal attacks of the regime, as well as against ISIS."
He said that American airstrikes in Syria were necessary but not enough for a victory.
"If ISIS goes, another radical organization may come in," he said. "So our approach should be comprehensive, inclusive, strategic and combined ... not just to punish -- to satisfy our public opinion -- to punish one terrorist organization, but to eliminate all terrorist threats in the future, and also to eliminate all brutal crimes against humanity committed by the regime."
"We want to have a no-fly zone. We want to have a safe haven on our border. Otherwise, all these burdens will continue to go on the shoulder of Turkey and other neighboring countries."
Right now on Turkey's border, ISIS has been vying for control of the Syrian town of Kobani; CNN crews on the border witnessed what appeared to be an ISIS black flag flying on the eastern side of town.
"We will do everything possible to help people of Kobani because they are our brothers and sisters. We don't see them as Kurds or Turkmen or Arabs. If there is a need of intervention to Kobani, we are telling that there is a need of intervention to all Syria, all of our border."
The rise of ISIS, and the international military strikes against it, have forced hundreds of thousands of refugees across Turkey's border in recent weeks, to join the nearly 1 million refugees that the United Nations refugee agency says are already there.
"People are asking us to receive refugees, and they are praising us, OK. But at the same time, they are saying please control your border. How can you control a border if, in three days, 180,000 people are coming? In three days!"
On the front lines of Syria's war, Turkey is trying to dispel the idea that the United States can become involved in Syria by going after ISIS but not al-Assad.
"We said chemical weapons are the red line. He used chemical weapons. What happened to him?"
"We didn't do anything."
"He killed people by punishing through hunger. He surrounded cities, neighborhoods, and kept them hungry. And we have seen -- you showed in your program -- 50,000 photographs who were killed by these methods, by Syrian regime. And everybody was silent."
"And now, because of these crimes, there was no reaction, these radical organizations -- I mean ISIS -- misused this atmosphere and told these people the international community doesn't defend you. Nobody defends you. Only I can defend you by my own means. This was the source of ISIS."
Davutoglu said Turkey warned the West "several times" about the rise of radicalism in Syria.
"We talked to our European and American colleagues that if there is no solution against these crimes against humanity by the Syrian regime, there will be a rise of radicalism. At that time, there was no name of ISIS, but we were telling them."
A porous border, a diplomatic spat
Disagreements over how much America should involve itself in the Syria civil war are not the only source of tension between Turkey and the United States.
Last week, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden blamed Turkey in part for the rise of groups like ISIS.
"They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad," he said. "Except that the people who were being supplied were al-Nusra and al Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadis coming from other parts of the world."
The vice president apologized to Erdogan in a phone conversation this weekend.
"This is really a very unfair accusation," Davutoglu said.
"What we expect, Christiane, are two things: fairness and empathy."
"America, the United States of America, has a border with Mexico, and there are two states on both sides. Is it easy to control all the border?"
"One point six million people came (to Turkey). This is the combined total, combined population of Washington, D.C., Boston and Atlanta."
"You can imagine which type of risks and challenges we are facing. Either we will close the borders, which means nobody can come in, which would be against our culture."
Turkey has nonetheless openly supported the moderate opposition.
"We didn't hide that we are supporting the moderate opposition, Syrian National Coalition, by all means. If others listened to our advice -- our allies and the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council -- if they had protected and supported the moderate opposition, today we wouldn't be facing such a big crisis of ISIS."
Heureusement que la Turquie n a jamais obtenu son adhésion a l Europe. On aurait un brave problème avec eux aujourd'hui ..... (sans parler de frontières)
Tu peux être rassuré même si officiellement il y a toujours une demande d’adhésion. Officieusement, ils ont parfaitement acté depuis longtemps que l’Europe est implicitement ‘un club Vatican’ et qu’ils ne l’intégreront jamais. De plus, dorénavant pour eux, l’Europe est plus perçu comme un continent malade en déclin qu’un avantage.
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Turkey to bargain with US over no-fly zone
October/03/2014
MURAT YETKİN
President Tayyip Erdoğan seemingly had no doubt about the result of the Oct. 2 vote in Parliament about giving a mandate to the Ahmet Davutoğlu government to get involved in military commitments within the U.S.-led front against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in both Iraq and Syria.
He had already called Davutoğlu, key ministers and key security bureaucrats for a security meeting on the same evening.
According to ranking Turkish sources speaking on condition of anonymity, the Turkish position in the talks with U.S. officials would be outlined after this meeting. That position will be a basis in the talks, which are expected to start during the visit to Turkey of John Allan, who is the anti-ISIL coordinator of U.S. President Barack Obama, and Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Brett McGurk. That visit will take place right after the Muslim religious holiday between Oct. 3-7.
The main demand of the Turkish side in those talks and the follow ups is expected to be the imposition of a no-fly zone by the U.S.-led coalition in the north of a certain part of Syria, up to the Turkish border, like those applied in Iraq under the Saddam Hussein regime between 1991-2003.
At that time there were two no-fly zones imposed over Iraqi air space: One to protect Shiites from Iraqi air forces south of the 32th parallel and one to protect Kurds north of the 36th parallel. There is no solid information yet, but the Turkish position may well be the imposition at the of the same 36th parallel, for which operations could be carried out from the İncirlik airbase in southern Turkey, just as was the case of “Northern Watch” for Iraq 12 years ago. Then, U.S., British and French jets under the monitoring of the Turkish Air Forces carried out patrol flights in order to make sure that there were no Iraqi flights being conducted there.
The no-fly zone in practice will be aimed at stopping the Syrian air force from entering the area. That is likely to create new fault lines in the region, as Syria has been in a civil war for the last three years that actually helped lead to the establishment of al-Qaeda-affiliated radical Islamist organizations like al-Nusra and ISIL.
Asked why Turkey wants so much to secure an international effort to stop flights by the Syrian regime, a ranking Turkish official told HDN that Syrian jets and helicopters had previously bombed Free Syrian Army (FSA) positions whenever the FSA engaged in clashes with ISIL, in order to let the latter dominate the region and sweep the Western-supported FSA away. “ISIL couldn’t have grown so fast without the help of the Syrian air forces,” the official claimed. “We do not want to have the same scenario repeated.”
Ankara also believes that the Bashar al-Assad regime deliberately released al-Qaeda and affiliated radical terrorists out of prison and allowed them the join radical Islamist organizations, including ISIL, in order to present itself to the West as the lesser evil.
The legal grounds of such a no-fly zone are open to debate. There is no U.N. resolution yet particular to that purpose. On the other hand, there was no U.N. resolution for the no-fly zone over Iraq in 1991 either. It is true that there is a stronger Russian position and influence in the case of Syria, but just as the U.S. would not get into a war with Russia over Ukraine, Russia is not likely to get into a war with the U. S. over Syria. The general understanding among Turkish officials is that if you can convince the U.S. then you can convince the coalition and get the operation going.
This stance of the government, in fact, is almost evidence for what the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) leader Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu said in his criticism of the parliamentary mandate for the government, when he announced that he would vote against the mandate, despite all his calls for weeks that Turkey should side with the West against ISIL. He said the motion actually targeted the Syrian regime more than ISIL itself, and risked dragging Turkey further into the “Middle Eastern quagmire.”
Will the U.S. and its partners say “yes” to a no-fly zone over Syria? Why not? After all, it is a bargaining process and it all depends on what you get in return. As of yesterday, the Turkish government has the capacity to make generous commitments for a whole year.
Hurriyet Daily News
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Sans doute les frontières de 67. Terme incontestable avant toute discussion.
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La Syrie met en garde la Turquie
Bouh ! Nous sommes tous morts de peur. Littéralement tétanisés.
L'armée Syrienne à progressé au nord d'Alep et à presque encerclé Alep, il faut maintenant consolidé les positions avant la contre attaque
Compte là-dessus ! Faut pas rêver et prendre ses désirs pour la réalité dorénavant avec tout le beau monde qui s’est pointé pour très longtemps.
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Quelques photos du "Tigre" sur le front au nord de Homs
Les termes le plus indiqués sont en réalité l’assassin, le tueur de masse, le criminel de guerre lui et toute sa petite bande.
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La Suède va reconnaître l'«État de Palestine»
Mis à jour à 17h19 2 CommentairesLe Premier ministre pense que la résolution du conflit passe par la création de deux Etats. Le nouveau gouvernement formé ce vendredi est plus favorable à la cause palestinienne.
http://www.tdg.ch/monde/europe/suede-reconnaitre-etat-palestine/story/13279070
J’attends les réactions avec impatience, je sens que ca va être drôle.
Réaction bien hypocrite et pitoyable, dans les grandes largeurs, du premier responsable - bien tenu par les couilles - de tout ce foutoir. On rejoue la scène risible d’obstruction à contre-courant de l’histoire comme lors du vote d’adhésion de la Palestine en tant qu’état observateur non-membre auprès de l'ONU.
La reconnaissance internationale d'un État palestinien est "prématurée"
Publié le 03/10/2014 à 21:11
Si la Suède a annoncé qu'elle reconnaîtrait un "État de Palestine", les États-Unis appellent à une "solution négociée" entre Palestiniens et Israéliens.
Les États-Unis ont prévenu vendredi que toute "reconnaissance internationale d'un État palestinien" était "prématurée", après que la Suède eut annoncé qu'elle reconnaîtrait un "État de Palestine". La porte-parole du département d'État Jennifer Psaki a réaffirmé le "soutien" de Washington au principe d'un "État palestinien", mais par le biais d'un processus de paix, d'une "solution négociée" et de "reconnaissance mutuelle" entre Palestiniens et Israéliens.
Les États-Unis et leur secrétaire d'État John Kerry, artisans entre juillet 2013 et avril dernier de la reprise du dialogue direct entre les deux camps, ont toujours milité pour une "solution à deux États vivant côte à côte", a rappelé Jennifer Psaki. Mais "ce sont les parties qui doivent vouloir et pouvoir aller de l'avant", a plaidé la porte-parole.
La Suède va reconnaître l'"État de Palestine", avait annoncé vendredi le nouveau Premier ministre Stefan Löfven, soulignant que la solution au conflit israélo-palestinien passait par la création de deux États.
Coup de froid
Le département d'État n'a pas été en mesure de dire si Stockholm avait informé Washington à l'avance de sa décision unilatérale, ni même si les Américains avaient abordé cette question avec leurs partenaires européens.
L'Union européenne avait aussi condamné vendredi la construction de nouveaux logements dans un quartier juif de Jérusalem-Est, prévenant que l'avenir de ses relations avec Israël dépendrait de son engagement pour la paix. Les États-Unis avaient aussi fermement dénoncé mercredi ce projet de construction, annoncé en plein face-à-face à la Maison Blanche entre le président Barack Obama et le Premier ministre Benjamin Netanyahu.
Les relations entre les deux alliés subissent un très important coup de froid depuis l'échec du processus de paix au printemps dernier et la guerre à Gaza qui a suivi.
Le Point
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Armée de l'air saoudienne
dans Afrique / Proche Orient
Posté(e) · Modifié par Gravity
A démontré… ;)
http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&p=389021
http://globalairpower.net/saudi-green-flag-egqs-september-2007/
http://theaviationist.com/2013/09/17/green-flag-2013/
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