Bechar06

Effectivement Ian est très intéressant ... J'extrais en décembre 2019 ( 14 au 17 ) "I would say that the Aster Block 2 and the EABMDI are the same missile. France probably measured the financial costs associated with the development of such a missile, and decided to make an Europe-wide proposal to share costs." "Both sources talk about an europeean program proposed by France for the development of a new missile called the EABMDI (for European Air and Ballistic Missile Defence Interceptor).There is nothing online about this EABMDI, I guess this is because it is a new thing." "In the last few years, MBDA has been completely silent about the Block 2. Regarding official interest, in the Aster Block 2, a report from the French senate written in 2011 states the importance of the missile in the BMD plans for Europe, but no further actions were suggested." "OK, let’s discuss ballistic missile defense in Europe. I will not talk about the US plans for EU-based BMD, but about what the EU have in term of indigenously -developed BMD systems. And boys, there’s a lot a say." "This is probably why the GroundFire300 was considered for the SAMP/T NG despite the performance gap between the Aster 30 Block 1 NT and the radar. It is likely that the EABMDI will be deployed on SAMP/T TELs as well as on the ships using A50/70 VLS." "I found a low-quality video online showing the Aster Block 2 beeing fired from a SAMP/T system. If the EABMDI and the Block 2 are the same missile, this is likely how the system will be used." ( vidéo 14/12/2019 ) "Aster Block 2 BMD Missile" ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQx8HDvtR9I&feature=youtu.be "The Block 2 was described in MBDA slides as able to destroy IRBMs in the 3000Km range. I will try when I have time to do a performance analysis of an hypothetical two-stages, 45cm-diameter BMD missile. It will be interesting to try to approximate the size of the defendable area." "In the meantime, I hope more information about the EABMDI will become available soon. BMD in Europe should be a priority given the new threats (Iskander, anyone?) we might be facing in the future." "I found an interesting article from late November on Jane’s website ( https://janes.com/article/92789/mbda-positions-disruptive-interceptor-solution-for-twister-missile-defence-project…), and I wanted to discuss a few things about MBDA's EABMDI, MaRV and BMD interceptors." "In this article about TWISTER, it is reported that MBDA is involved heavily (Hi @marcusmfk ) in designing a « disruptive » interceptor for the project. As it is unlikely that MBDA will develop two BMD missiles at the same time, I assume this interceptor is the EABMDI." "Now, the question is, what does this « disruptive » term means? Well, there's something very strange going on there...All BMD missiles that I know about (PAC-3, 9M82/83, Sprint…) use conventional solid propulsion (see pictures)." "However, on the picture MBDA sent to the press, the missile depicted is using an air-breathing engine, namely a ramjet. MBDA have been very committed to using ramjets on their products (the ASMP, the Meteor…), so if someone was to use one on a BMD missile, it would be them." "Why would you want such a propulsion system on a BMD missile? I can see a few reasons. The main advantage of a ramjet vs solid propellant (yes, I know most missile ramjets are Solid Fuel Integrated Rocket Ramjets – SFIRR-, but you get the idea) is efficiency." "Since a ramjet uses the oxygen from the air and doesn’t have to carry its own oxidizer, it can provide more thrust, or the same thrust for longer, than a solid fuel rocket of the same weight/dimensions." "This means that, for a given missile size and weight, the ramjet can give you more range (through longer burn time at the same thrust level) or more speed (more thrust for the same duration)." "In the case of a classic, solid-propellant missile, you usually have a short-duration propelled flight, then an unpowered coast flight. Once in non-propelled flight, each maneuver will cost the missile energy in the form of speed and/or altitude." "At the end of the flight, that missile will be low on energy and will be unable to undertake significant maneuvers. When dealing with strictly ballistic targets, this isn't an issue: the endgame depends more on sensor and local maneuvering performances than anything else." "The trajectory of the RV (or the whole missile, if it doesn’t have a detachable RV) is predictable enough that a carefully shot missile will get close enough of that predicted trajectory. In that scenario, you will not need to perform any major course alteration." "This however changes dramatically if you’re dealing with a Maneuverable Reentry Vehicle (MaRV). MaRVs can alter their trajectory, to: 1 - Improve the precision of the warhead, to hit very specific targets (that’s the case for ballistic AShMs like the DF-21D, or for some more..." "traditional ballistic missiles like the active radar terminal-guidance version of the Pershing II), 2 - Increase the size of the targetable footprint for multiple-MaRVs missiles, 3 - theoretically, defeat interception by undertaking evasive maneuvers." "MaRVs are a major problem for BMD systems manufacturers, because solid fuel missiles have usually little ability to compensate for the large maneuvers MaRVs are capable of; once your engine shuts down, performing a significant change in trajectory comes with an important..." "...energy penalty, a reduced range and a lower Pk. This problem can be mitigated by using a SFIRR interceptor: for the whole duration of the propelled flight, the missile can change trajectory easily, in a much more efficient fashion than a conventional solid fuel engine missile." "This longer burn time also increases the maneuverability of the missile in the endgame, since your time-since-burnout will be shorter than with a solid fuel rocket engine, and your energy state will be better. This comes with a few drawbacks though." "Since you’re using an air-breathing engine, you obviously need…air (crazy, I know). This means that, unlike other high-end BMD interceptors, you will be limited to endo-atmospheric interceptions." "The consequence of this design choice is that your window of opportunity for an interception of a conventional RV will be very reduced (see picture - and I'm sorry for this lame illustration, I was too tired to do something better...)." @hadriel l'image qui résume tout: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL86wcHXsAAjExf.jpg "This will put a tremendous strain on the tracking and datalink parts of the system. With such a reduced firing window, there will be no time for a shoot-look-shoot strategy. However, since the demands on radars and datalinks will already be a challenge when dealing with MaRVs..." "...because of the need for a reliable target tracking and missile course updates during MaRV maneuvers, it is likely that the infrastructure will be designed to cope with that difficulty. Another limitation is that MaRVs will maneuver once they have enough air to generate lift." "By intercepting outside of the atmosphere, you deny them the opportunity to maneuver. By opposition, the air-breathing missile will have to intercept them in the denser, lower atmosphere where they will be able to maneuver." "(however, the defendable footprint of a solid fuel interceptor will be smaller the one of the ramjet interceptor, so the MaRV would have to reenter basically above your launch site –like a conventional RV– for that kind of interception to take place. An unlikely scenario)." "Bottom line: the ramjet interceptor makes sense if you want to counter MaRVs, or if you want to use your missiles in a dual-use system (AAW and BMD). However, this will come at the cost of a reduced interception window against conventional RVs. "Since most advanced countries are now developing MaRVs, these may become the main ballistic threat in the years to come, and designing interceptors specifically to deal with them might prove a good idea." "Regarding the EABMDI, I think that the illustration depicting a ramjet-propelled missile intercepting a flat-body MaRV looking a lot like the Chinese WU-14 says a lot... :) It also means that I was wrong about the Aster block 2 and the EABMDI beeing the same missile..." "A few more things that I should've said in the main thread: 1 - If MBDA plans on using a ramjet for its BMD missile, the GroundFire 300 radar from the SAMP/T NG makes sense. It will bring the needed range for MaRV tracking and motion analysis." 2 - I think I need to give more details about this obscure picture. This is the trajectory of an american MaRV (the AMaRV). The top line is the MaRV itself, entering the atmosphere at a steep angle then gliding towards its target. The second line is the booster's trajectory. 3 - I discussed here about MaRVs because they are already filded by some nations, but hypersonic gliding vehicules (HGVs) will present the same characteristics and challenges."

Tu as raison :! J'ai réactivé le sujet en Ai je raison ??? d'orienter la discussion vers là bas ????

Twister ? et https://www.frstrategie.org/publications/notes/futur-intercepteur-endo-atmospherique-quelles-menaces-quelles-technologies-2019 Futur intercepteur endo-atmosphérique : quelles menaces et quelles technologies ? Domaine d’interception envisagé et intérêt d’une solution de propulsion par statoréacteur https://www.senat.fr/rap/r10-733/r10-73362.html '( 01 / 12 / 2000 ) ... Exoguard de EADS Astrium L'Exoguard - la solution exo-atmosphérique Ce que signifiait juste il y a qq heures @g4lly : "On a l'impression que c'est toujours la même arlésienne depuis 10 ans ... trouver une "niche" de marché entre les Aster 30 block2 / Patriot... et les THAAD ... Pour ceux qui ont besoin d'un vieux rafraichissement le rapport du sénat d'il y a 10 ans qui explique la problématique des interception entre 25 et 100 km https://www.senat.fr/rap/r10-733/r10-733.html"

As tu lu cela ( cité plus haut ) ?

Avec ce TWISTER .... @Guest invité inconnu ( créateur de ce fil ) ! Ou ADMIN ? @Akhilleus Créer un autre titre ? Où est le rédacteur en chef ??

A écouter ( 01/12/20 ) et ré-écouter car l'ARCTIQUE et ses pays riverains j( USA, CANADA, RUSSIE... NORVEGE, FINLANDE, ISLANDE ... ) jusqu'à la CHINE qui revendique ... Et le DANEMARK et son GROENLAND ( projet sérieux de rachat par les USA... Thulé ! ) https://www.france.tv/france-5/le-monde-en-face/2095283-arctique-la-guerre-du-pole.html Arctique, la guerre du pôle disponible jusqu'au 31.12.20 en REPLAY La route maritime du Nord-Est a toujours été un rêve pour des milliers de marins. En raison du réchauffement climatique, cet axe est désormais libre de glace la majeure partie de l'année, la banquise ayant diminué de moitié. Cette catastrophe pour l'écologie aiguise pourtant l'appétit de certains pays dont la Russie qui y voit un enjeu de développement économique avec l'exploitation du gaz et du pétrole. Le pays a même trouvé un allié de taille avec la Chine qui, elle aussi, projette de nombreuses opportunités. Mais les Etats-Unis entrés tardivement dans la course relancent, quant à eux, la menace de l'hypothèse d'une guerre froide en Antarctique. Tiens le Danemark ... Donc le GROENLAND ... N'est ce pas l' EUROPE, avec la FINLANDE ? ben non ... L' Europe est avachie ! Rien à foutre des Outres mers !

Gagné OPEX360 de vitesse ! pourtant assez rapide ! Salut à Laurent LAGNEAU l'auteur http://www.opex360.com/2020/12/01/le-programme-de-systeme-de-drone-aerien-pour-la-marine-franchit-une-etape-cruciale/

Voilà une réponse Du même post initial, j'extrait aussi : la mise au point d’ intercepteurs endo-atmosphériques devient une nécessité relever un certain nombre de défis technologiques. « Intercepter un engin manœuvrant très véloce implique que l’intercepteur puisse lui-même manœuvrer et opérer à grande vitesse ou qu’il puisse opérer là où la cible dispose d’une capacité de manœuvre réduite, au-delà de 30 à 40 km d’altitude » développer des intercepteurs « propulsés par super-statoréacteur + Seul l’ajout d’une propulsion secondaire anaérobie permet de surmonter ces limites pour porter les altitudes d’interception là où la cible est peu manœuvrante le projet de planeur hypersonique V-MAX, que conduit actuellement la Direction générale de l’armement [DGA], devrait permettre de trouver des solutions étant donné que les problématiques sont proches MBDA accueille avec enthousiasme la décision Ce projet d’intercepteur de nouvelle génération représente une opportunité unique pour les Européens de faire converger leurs efforts dans le domaine des antimissiles et de reconquérir leur souveraineté dans un domaine essentiel"

Je l'ai trouvé après ... et je l'ai mis à jour de ce message en double

Grand Merci !

https://www.meta-defense.fr/2020/12/01/lallemagne-rejoint-le-programme-de-defense-anti-missile-europeen-twister/ L' Allemagne rejoint le programme anti-missile Twister , mené par la France ... Et abandonne le programme US TLVS «TWISTER », pour « Timely Warning and Interception with Space-based TheatER surveillance ». 2030 : mise en service ! Intercepter des missiles ( ou autres ) de 5500 km de portée ! POUR RAPPEL : ... TVLS : https://www.mbda-systems.com/product/tlvs/ The ground-based Tactical Air Defence System (TLVS) is designed for protecting troops in out-of-area missions as well as assets and areas in alliance and national-defence contexts. Based on Patriot PCA-3 MSE

Balises : SYSTÈME DE DRONE. AÉRIEN POUR LA. MARINE ( SDAM ) VSR700 VTOL UAV https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/vsr700-prototype-aces-first-autonomous-landing-on-moving-deck/ VSR700 Prototype Aces First Autonomous Landing On Moving Deck The VSR700 optionally piloted vehicle (OPV) has successfully achieved fully autonomous takeoff and landing (ATOL) approaches, validating its autonomy to and from a moving platform and advancing the VSR700 programme towards its end goal: offering a tactical unmanned aerial system (UAS) with (ATOL) capacities for global navies. The landing zone: a pitching, yawing platform, mounted on a trailer to simulate the conditions of a moving ship deck. PHOTOS du VSR700 en train d'atterrir sur un pont simulé et fortement agité ! https://www.defense.gouv.fr/english/layout/set/print/media/documents-telechargeables/pdfdefense/fiches-lpm-2019-2025/systeme-de-drone-aerien-pour-la-marine-sdam pour PDF ************************************************ https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/norincos-cr500-vtol-uav-cleared-for-delivery-to-undisclosed-customer CHINE : Norinco's CR500 VTOL UAV cleared for delivery to undisclosed customer the strike-capable CR500, which features coaxial rotors and can carry various payloads depending on the mission, can be used for battlefield reconnaissance, target acquisition, electronic warfare, communication relay, and damage assessment operations.

J' sais pas où mettre cette infos sur le DRONE HELICOPTERE de la MN ... M'énerve y a plein de sujets parallèles et quand tu cherche VSR700 ou SDAM ... la recherche" répond pas Donc je le colle LA https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/11/vsr700-prototype-aces-first-autonomous-landing-on-moving-deck/ VSR700 Prototype Aces First Autonomous Landing On Moving Deck The VSR700 optionally piloted vehicle (OPV) has successfully achieved fully autonomous takeoff and landing (ATOL) approaches, validating its autonomy to and from a moving platform and advancing the VSR700 programme towards its end goal: offering a tactical unmanned aerial system (UAS) with (ATOL) capacities for global navies. The landing zone: a pitching, yawing platform, mounted on a trailer to simulate the conditions of a moving ship deck. Avec dans ce lien : PHOTOS du VSR700 en train d'atterrir sur un pont simulé et fortement agité !

Récup et transport du PERLE : http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/archive/2020/11/30/le-rolldock-storm-est-a-toulon-pour-charger-le-sna-perle-21665.html Le RollDock Storm est à Toulon pour charger le SNA Perle Avec une PHOTO ! Le navire spécialisé néerlandais RollDock Storm est arrivé samedi à la base navale de Toulon. C'est ce navire (lire ses caractéristiques Lien site ) qui va acheminer le SNA Perle à Cherbourg où il sera réparé en 2021. En fonction de la météo, l'agenda serait le suivant: - le 4 décembre, chargement du SNA sur le Storm (photo ci-dessus FSG) - le 10 décembre au plus tard, départ vers Cherbourg - après un transit d'une durée de 6 jours, le Storm arrivera dans le port normand (vers le 13 décembre, si tout va bien) - le sous-marin devrait entrer dans la base navale de Cherbourg, le 18 - les premiers travaux pourraient débuter vers le 5 janvier.

https://www.meta-defense.fr/2020/11/30/pekin-entamerait-il-le-deploiement-dun-systeme-de-detection-antimissile-par-ballons-captifs/ ABM : Pékin entamerait il le déploiement d'un système de détection anti missile par Ballons Captifs ?