Lazar: entre MRAP et VBCI

[xav]

Mixez un Tatrapan, Boxer, et VBCI avec un chassis de camion en forme "V" et vous obtenez le Lazar (vehicule serbe je crois)

Le concept est sympas, mais la sortie n'a pas l'air aisee, et toutes les fenetres... ca fait bizarre :)

http://www.ecdlcentar.com/

[g4lly]

Mixez un Tatrapan, Boxer, et VBCI avec un chassis de camion en forme "V" et vous obtenez le Lazar (vehicule serbe je crois)

Le concept est sympas, mais la sortie n'a pas l'air aisee, et toutes les fenetres... ca fait bizarre :)

Interessant ce truc ... un MRAP-like typé VCI classique.

Les grand "baie" c'est super pratique pour la vision perimetrique vision qui est indispensable dans les opération COIN ou l'ennemi est partout et pas seulement surtout devant.

Les grand sabord de tir j'aime beaucoup ca permet de riposter a couvert avec une bonne vision et donc de valoriser tout les fabtassin sans avoir forcement a débarquer.

L'amenagement interieur dos a dos est tres typé combat/surveillance et pas trop transport ... les siege/strapontin on l'air bien confortable avec maitien de la tete et tout suspendu. Par contre y a la place pour 10pax largement ... plus les 2 équipage ... et du fret sous la tourelle teléopéré. C'est du 14.5?

Le double fond en V a l'air enorme !!! y au moins 40cm entre la base du V et le plancher cabine.

Le seul vrai probleme c'est que le truc est enorme ... plus de 3m50 de haut ... que les ouvrant sont tout petit et super haut perché.

http://www.ecdlcentar.com/baza/ecdl_informacije/y_report/y_report_br26.pdf

http://www.mycity-military.com/Kopnena-vojska/Srpsko-visenamensko-oklopno-vozilo-Lazar_8.html

laZar – mUltirole armored combat Vehicle

current world trends in the development of wheeled armored vehicles - mraV and mraP concepts In the course of current decade, global arms and defense equipment markets show noticeable trends of massive introduction into service with numerous armed forces of wheeled armored vehicles belonging to two main categories, known by their English language acronyms MRAV (Multi Role Armored Vehicle) and MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle). These refer to two classes of vehicles that differ in some of their essential conceptual parameters and their main tactical applications, but which offer comparable main performance levels and parameters of combat effectiveness in certain kinds of present-day armed conflicts, such as anti-terrorist / counter-guerilla operations, control of territories in areas threatened by terrorist/rebel activities, in peacekeeping missions, etc.

mraV (multi role armored Vehicle) Procurement of new-generation families of multi role armored vehicles (MRAV) has become an imperative for armed forces of leading Western countries in the current decade. This trend is being followed by other, primarily NATO member countries, but also by armed forces in other parts of the world that are considering or undertaking procurement of these vehicles. This type generally comprises wheeled 8 x 8 vehicles based on self-carrying armored hull structure, using independent suspension (rarely with chassis, as like Finnish PATRIA or German BOXER), featuring high off-road mobility as well as amphibious capability. Armor hull structure is consisting of welded armor plates providing all-arc ballistic protection, as well as ability to  replace/retrofit modules of superstructure composite armor, primarily made of ceramics/fiber composite modular removable segments with possibility for fitting of other principally different additional protection, such as rod-type (cagetype) armor or explosive reactive armor (ERA) designed to

alleviate damage from hand-held anti-armor projectiles. Vehicles have in basis multi-role features, meaning that various versions can be used as like infantry fighting vehicles

(IFVs), armored personal carriers (APCs), reconnaissance vehicles etc. Basic version of the type serves to transport infantry section of 8-12 soldiers that can be rapidly evacuated through tailgate. Vehicle concept provides transport of on board complement in individual seats, most often facing vehicle interior i.e. without the ability to fire personal

weapons. Vehicle permanent crew consists of driver, commander and weapons operator; weapons in their simplest configuration consisting of cal 7.62mm machine gun, or complemented with 12.7mm machine gun, cal. 40mm automatic grenade launcher, automatic guns cal. 20mm, 25mm or 30mm, in combination with machine guns and antitank guided missiles. The concept provides some level of antitank mine and improvised explosive device (IOD) protection. Such vehicles are characterized by relatively large dimensions,

complex engine, transmission and suspension systems – all of which resulting in their high price. Every model in this category represents a basis for development of a family of armored vehicles that include, beside APC version, self-propelled mortar/artillery platform, self-propelled AA gun/ air defense missile platform, command vehicle, medical evacuation, recovery vehicle, etc. mraP (mine resistant ambush Protected) Vehicle Contemporary anti-terrorist military conflicts waged by Western countries, led by the USA, in Afghanistan and Iraq, have led to accelerated development of novel kind of armored vehicles – Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAP). That development was dictated by the need to engage motorized infantry in everyday patrol duties in areas of expected insurgent/terrorist actions, in cities and villages and in hilly or mountainous intersected countryside where ambushes are reasonably expected or where they daily occur, waged by opponents employing small arms fire, anti-armor hand launchers, mortars, antitank mines and improvised explosive devices activated remotely or by trip wire, etc. In the period that preceded escalation of surprise ambush actions so characteristic for resent-day armed conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq, military units engaged in patrolling, reconnaissance, area control and securing duties and in antiterrorist operations, were transported in standard patrol and transport vehicles which had little or no armor protection or were protected against small arms FMJ ammunition only. Current experience gained from massive use of ambush engagements, especially in urban and rural areas and in intersected countryside, waged by using wide range of improvised

explosive devices, antitank mines, small arms fire and antitank rocket launchers, testifies that standard vehicles have appallingly low resistance against such actions, which

have led to very high losses of transported manpower. Response to that threat was development of new category of vehicles, designated MRAP, that were primarily based on

converting existing off-road utility vehicles. Manpower transported in such environment must be able to maintain continuous observation of its surroundings and, in case of need, to quickly disembark the vehicle and assume battle order on the ground. Concept of realization of that category vehicle involves converting of various types of current

off-road patrol and utility vehicles – trucks based on cross-country chassis with solid drive axles that are highly resistant to mines, in 4x4, 6x6 or 8x8 configurations. In addition,

relatively high clearance of base armor plates from the ground, characteristic for this concept of vehicles, considerably reduces effects of shock wave caused by stepping on

antitank land mines against the vehicle, which is a tangible advantage over the concept of current MRAV vehicles.

Main conversion interventions comprise fitting of armored plates or complete modular armored hulls, including portholes made of armored glass for on-board personnel, antimine

protection and fitting of armament that usually consists of armor-protected, manually operated machine gun cupolas, employing cal. 7.62mm and 12.7mm machine guns.

In addition, these vehicles are as a rule outfitted with jamming equipment designed to jam remotely controlled explosive devices operating in mobile phone and other radio frequencies in the vicinity, at ranges of several dozen meters, and with smoke pot dischargers. Program of equipping the US armed forces with MRAP class vehicles is the third largest in value among all defense equipment projects, after the Joint Strike Fighter and ballistic missile defense programs. experience of serbian (and ex-Yugoslav) defence industry Armed forces of Serbia, namely Serbian Army as well as Serbian Police, have encountered the threat of terrorist/insurgent activities considerably earlier than threat posed to Western states in Iraq and Afghanistan. Response to the threat to us initially consisted of low-budget, practically improvised projects of armoring and arming cross-country and utility vehicles in service with the police and army forces. Armoring included fitting of steel armor plates and armored glass; arming consisted of mounting machine guns cal. 7.62mm and 12.7mm, automatic grenade launchers cal.  30mm and recoilless guns cal. 82mm on hydraulically extended platforms, as well as mounting of lightly armored or soft cupolas.

These protective interventions were conducted on vehicle types LAND ROVER DEFENDER, HUMMER, UAZ, PINZGAUER and on trucks TAM-110 and TAM-150 in service at the time with the Police and Army of Yugoslavia.

development of laZar multi-role armored combat vehicle

In service with Serbian Army for over twenty years is armored fighting vehicle of BOV family, specialized for use by military police units in various tactical missions of riot control and anti-terrorist operations, designated BOV-3 or VPB M-86. The vehicle was developed based on TAM 150 T7 vehicle chassis elements and fitting of armored hull. Vehicle can transport section of 6-8 military police who can fire small arms from the with permanent crew comprising commander and weapons operator who can fire cal. 7.62mm machine gun M86 with electric trigger from partially armored cupola M86. Vehicle also mounts smoke pot dispenser and folding grill used to subdue riots. Hull armor provides ballistic protection from 7.62 mm AP round fired from distances of more than 100 m.

Jugoimpport-SDPR, as an integrator of Serbian defense industry and in keeping with own development strategy that monitors and analyzes the trends of arms and defense equipment developments and compatibility of noted trends with actual and potential personal, research&development, testing and technological capabilities of Serbian defense industry and its technological partners, has initiated development of a family of multi-role armored vehicles, designed for multiple tactical missions in potential combat environments, intended for wide range of potential customers, including the Serbian Army.

Functional model of the vehicle was completed in 2008 and it is publicly presented for the first time in the pages of this issue or REPORT. Code name of the vehicle is LAZAR, evocating the memory of Prince Lazar who headed Serbian armored cavalry and the entire Serbian army,  heroically losing his life in the Battle of Kosovo on St. Vid’s day in the year 1389.

In its concept and applied technical solutions, the vehicle is particularly adapted for use by modern infantry units and special forces engaged in missions within anti-terrorist and peacekeeping operations, with emphasis on engagements in urban conditions, settlements and on intersected terrains, in environments involving ambushes, antitank mines and improvised explosive devices set up by an adversary.

The concept of this vehicle practically represents an advanced MRAP, featuring certain properties (mobility, terrain negotiating capability and fire power) of MRAV class combat vehicle, this combining main characteristics of both, nowadays highly important classes of wheeled armored vehicles.

When designing the concept of the vehicle, special emphasis was placed on achievement of high mobility, system of armor protection, armament system, ability to transport 10

infantrymen who should be able to quickly embark or evacuate the vehicle using tail gate.

Embarked section is so accommodated that fighters face large portholes made of ballistic glass equipped with firing ports, ensuring excellent visibility of surrounding terrain and ability to open fire with personal weapons.

When designing the concept of vehicle’s propulsion and suspension, after careful study and modeling of feasible technical solutions, it was decided to adopt 8x8 drive, featuring live axles and springs which would provide high level of protection from effects of antitank mines, at the same time ensuring high off-road mobility.

During cross-country testing, the vehicle demonstrated very high off-road mobility in varying terrain and weather conditions, very high ability to negotiate gradients, trenches and, in particular, side slopes. Superior slope negotiating ability is especially important when vehicle’s high center of gravity is taken into account, designed so in order to provide better mine protection.

High level of armor protection was achieved by adopting of steel armor hull that, in its basic version, includes ballistic glass panes and provides protection that meets STANAG

4569, level III+ (protection against 12.7x107 mm B-32 API round fired from 100 m) at front and level II at the sides and rear. By fitting add-on armor of laminated composite structure, attached on basic armor, vehicle ballistic protection is rated level V at front and level IV at all other sides. Armored hull design allows quick fitting and replacement of add-on armor sections by vehicle crew, which, when fitted, do not degrade basic functions of the vehicle.

Optionally, fitting of reactive explosive armor attached to add-on armor will provide effective protection against infantry hand launchers of RPG-7 type which nowadays represent main threat in already mentioned type of warfare. Hull bottom is V-shaped that, in addition to high ground clearance and solid drive train, ensures very high level of protection from antitank mine and IED, according to level IIIa (resistant against blasts of AT mine or IED containing 6kg of HE occurring under vehicle wheels and floor)

Vehicle armament system is situated in the area between driver’s and commander’s compartment and area that accommodates embarked troops. Concept of the vehicle allows incorporation of a variety of turrets, cupolas and weapon stations, depending on main application of the vehicle and planned budget of the user.

Simplest armament consists of partially armored modular cupola M06 with detachable mounts, able to support the following weapon alternatives:

- machine gun cal. 7.62 x 54 mm M86 with electric trigger,

- machine gun cal.. 12.7 x 108 mm,

- automatic grenade launcher cal. 30 mm.

- cannon M55 (HS 804) cal. 20 x 110 mm

Existing functional model, as illustrated, mounts lighweight cupola LK08 armed with cannon cal. 20 x 110 mm M55 (HS804), with belt feeding, and machine gun cal. 7.62 x 54 mm M86. The concept permits installation of different weapon stations equipped with optoelectronic fire control system and an integrated weapons system that may consists of a combination the following weapon alternatives:

Cannon cal. 20 mm M55

Cannon cal. 30 mm M86

Wire-guided AT missile system Malutka 2 with twin launcher

Machine gun cal. 7.62 mm M86

Machine gun cal. 12. 7 mm M87

Automatic grenade launcher cal. 30 mm M93

Overall mass of cupola with weapon station is up to two tons, diameter of its support bearing is up to 1600 mm. All versions of the turret, cupola or weapon stations – in addition to listed weapon alternatives – are equipped with 4 dispensers of smoke charges.

Vehicle crew consists of three permanent members – commander, driver and weapons operator – plus embarked section of 10 soldiers – infantrymen, military police, antiterrorist squad, special unit, police or gendarmerie unit, etc. Folding seats are attached to vehicle roof providing easier crew circulation and added crew protection against effects of blasts under the vehicle. Embarked section of 10 troops is transported at rear of the vehicle, sitting on folding, ergonomically shaped seats attached to vehicle roof, five men at each side sitting back-to-back and facing the sides of the vehicle, able to observe terrain through portholes of ballistic glass and to fire personal weapons – assault rifles, light machine guns or grenade launchers cal. 40 mm – through firing ports situated below lookout ports. The space available permits easy embarking, evacuation and  comfortable accommodation of soldiers wearing full ballistic protection including protective vests with ballistic plates and tactical vests with ammunition and other gear. Space between driver’s and commander’s compartment and embarked crew area, left and right from turret basket i.e. from weapon operator’s station, serves as storage bay for a range of infantry weapons, antitank hand launchers, portable antitank wire guided missile systems, portable air defense missile launchers, etc. The crew enter and exit the vehicle through tailgate which is also provided with portholes and firing ports and enables embarking or disembarking of complete crew in about 10 seconds including their taking of seats. There are also two side doors, plus two emergency roof hatches. Observations made by the user during demonstration of the vehicle noted that armored vehicle LAZAR provides comfortable transport, excellent visibility, quick and easy driver training, unhindered and effective use of personal weapons, significant fire support provided by disembarked section using the complement of weapons carried on board, unhindered and rapid disembarking and embarking and, an important impression, feeling of security and domination in the battlefield. Basic concept of the vehicle represents the foundation for building up its different versions – command vehicle, medical evacuation, logistic support (cargo) vehicle, engineering /recovery vehicle, mine clearing vehicle, as well as platform for selfpropelled mortar cal. 120mm, self-propelled artillery piece cal. 122/155mm, artillery, rocket or hybrid (artillery/rocket) or air defense system, etc. Special equipment (on customers’ request)

• Air-conditioning employing compressor split system,

• VHF radio set of 15W output, with UMR

• Filtering-ventilating system creating overpressure within the hull, air-filtering system including CBR protection

• Command information system (KIS) with GPS based navigation

• Panoramic optoelectronic reconnaissance-observation station, stabilized in two planes, fitted with CCD TV camera, thermal imaging camera and laser rangefinder

Command information system (KIS) is a hardware/software device that provides support in mission planning and preparing to unit commanding officers, their decision making, organization, preparing of reports, issuing of orders, locating of target positions and similar activities related to combat activities.

main functions of Kis

- Presentation of own position and positions of other vehicles on situation chart,

- Mission planning support,

- Determining of own position and navigation,

- Communication with superior and coordinating units,

- Exchange of information,

- Participation in target locating, tracking and firing engagements.

[xav]

Aparrement tous ces vehicules sont haut:

Meme le VBCI en somme... plus haut qu'un lecerc.

Edit.

Video:

http-~~-//fr.youtube.com/watch?v=uJf--KDyUIY

[Buzz]

A pars tsahal un armée occidentale a telle prévu de s'équiper d'un véhicule de ce type?

[Chris.]

Le seul vrai probleme c'est que le truc est enorme ... plus de 3m50 de haut ... que les ouvrant sont tout petit et super haut perché.

Un autre problème que je vois, c'est que les sièges sont placés très proches du plancher (10/15 cm max) et le faible espace devant les sièges disponible pour poser leurs pieds.

Donc les soldats auront leurs jambes dans une position peu confortable, avec un angle au niveau du genou très fort (+ de 90°), ce qui va diminuer les capacités du soldat au moment de la sortie du véhicule, les jambes allant être engourdies...

Enfin, remarque, c'est peut-être aussi le cas dans d'autres VCI, j'y ai jamais mis les pieds...

[Clairon]

Le seul vrai probleme c'est que le truc est enorme ... plus de 3m50 de haut ... que les ouvrant sont tout petit et super haut perché.

La doc parle d'une hauteur de chassis de 2,54 m, c'est à peine 30 cm de plus que le VBCI. Chassillan disait que pour faire un VBCI "MRAPé" avec plancher en V, il aurait été surélevé de plus de 40 cm ... Donc rien d'étonnant. Un Bushmaster avec également planché en V anti-mines fait plus de 2,60 m de hauteur .... Donc dès que l'on rajoute le moindre tourelleau téléopéré c'est plus de 50 cm en plus en hauteur ....

Clairon

[g4lly]

La doc parle d'une hauteur de chassis de 2,54 m, c'est à peine 30 cm de plus que le VBCI. Chassillan disait que pour faire un VBCI "MRAPé" avec plancher en V, il aurait été surélevé de plus de 40 cm ... Donc rien d'étonnant. Un Bushmaster avec également planché en V anti-mines fait plus de 2,60 m de hauteur .... Donc dès que l'on rajoute le moindre tourelleau téléopéré c'est plus de 50 cm en plus en hauteur ....

Clairon

Je me suis un peu enflammé sur la hauteur :) je comptais la tourelle ... m'enfin c'est haut ... deja que les VBCI c'est gros ... la c'est tres gros.

[Invité]

J'aime bien ce concept. Nexter devrait s'en inspirer pour concevoir le remplacant du VAB.

[g4lly]

J'aime bien ce concept. Nexter devrait s'en inspirer pour concevoir le remplacant du VAB.

Le seul soucis c'est qu'il fait 28t a masse maxi ;) un chouilla overload pour remplacer le VAB. Pour le moment le remplacant du VAB "par le haut" serait plus au format AMC 6x6 présenté par RTD ... quand je dis plus au format c'est un euphémisme il semble que l'AMC soit fait quasi spécifiquement dans le but de remplacer le VAB dans son role hérité "combat" a moyen terme.

[Philippe Top-Force]

Je me suis un peu enflammé sur la hauteur :) je comptais la tourelle ... m'enfin c'est haut ... deja que les VBCI c'est gros ... la c'est tres gros.

A bon, on va dire donc que la fumée t'a aveuglé  :lol: et joué un mauvais tour, cela doit être visuel car voici :  O0

Caractéristiques du VBCI :

  8 roues motrices

  Masse en ordre de combat : • Version VCI : 28,8 tonnes • Version VPC : 26 tonnes

  Dimensions du chassis : conforme au gabarit routier (L = 7,60m, l = 2,98 m, h = 2,20m)

  Equipage 2 hommes (pilote et tireur/chef d’engin)

  Protection balistique modulaire et évolutive face aux menaces " moyens calibres " et mines/IED

  Groupe motopropulseur de 555 ch avec boite automatique

  Importante mobilité stratégique en autonome

  Mobilité tactique adaptée à tous les terrains de combat

  Suspension oléo-pneumatique

  Roues équipées du dispositif de variation de pression de gonflage en marche et du dispositif de roulage " à plat "

  Charge utile :

Version VCI :

Groupe de combat de 9 hommes (+ équipage permanent de 2 hommes)

Tourelle de moyen calibre de type Dragar (25mm)

Mitrailleuse de 7,62 mm

Version VPC :

2 postes SIR avec 5 servants (+ équipage permanent de 2 hommes)

Tourelleau téléopéré d’auto défense armée d’une mitrailleuse de 12,7 mm

  Communication : 2 postes radio de nouvelle génération

Performances :

  Vitesse maximum : supérieure à 100 km/h

  Diamètre de virage minimal : inférieur à 17 m

  Autonomie : supérieure à 750 km sur route à vitesse moyenne de 60 km/h

  Pentes max : 60 %

  Dévers maximal : 30 %

  Franchissement d’un fossé à bords francs : 1,7 m

  Franchissement de gué : 1,5 m

  Aérotransportable A400M

[g4lly]

42.6m3 pour l'APC serbe contre 50m3 pour le VCI francais ... effectivement ca se vaut ... meme si le bidule serbe est super haut et assez etroit :)

Enfin c'est gros pour un APC ... non?

[Philippe Top-Force]

42.6m3 pour l'APC serbe contre 50m3 pour le VCI francais ... effectivement ca se vaut ... meme si le bidule serbe est super haut et assez etroit :)

Enfin c'est gros pour un APC ... non?

Ils sont en Europe, les Serbes donc ils ont sans doute les mêmes contraintes de gabarit routier à se conformer.

Leur Multi Role Armored Vehicle semble se décliner en plusieurs versions proposées, vu les RETEX IED et Ambush, ils l'ont fait aux nouvelles normes de sécurité avec des configurations élevées, les 28 tonnes sont avec le blindage additionnel, sinon l'engin fait 16,3 tonnes. Une faible autonomie de 600 km, la norme avoisinne les 750 Km et une vitesse de 100/110 km contre 90 km. Faudrais voir son comportement dans les contextes et différences de compartiment de terrain.

Visuellement parlant, c'est un beau design. Son prix ne doit pas être aussi élevé. Les chambres de combat ont la même superficie (presque)

A propos, pour leur remplaçant VTT/APC, les UK auront le Piranha V (s'il le commande) les Hollandais et Allemands le MRAP 8X8 Boxer, ils sont très gros vis à vis du VAB 4x4.

[Rescator]

à trois poils près, ce Lazar correspond aux specs VBMR

mais l'emat ne souhaite pas (pour le moment) acheter un 8x8

sinon véhicule intéressant dont il faudra suivre la carrière avec attention

[Invité]

n'existe pas existe aussi en 4x4

[xav]

Ou en 4x4 il y a aussi ca... Le constructeur est moins "exotique"

Aparrement tous ces vehicules sont haut:

Meme le VBCI en somme... plus haut qu'un lecerc.

Edit.

Video:

http-~~-//fr.youtube.com/watch?v=uJf--KDyUIY

[LBP]

bon jouet avec toutes ces trappes cela permet le combat urbain.

Il y a du retour d'expérience de la guerre de l'ex-Yougoslavie.

[Buzz]

Est ce que le Wildcat va bientôt rentrer en service chez tsahal ou il yen a encore pour un bout de temps?

[cvs]

Le véhicule sans défaut ça existe ?

[g4lly]

existe aussi en 4x4

C'est un photoshopage ;)

[Invité]

C'est un photoshopage ;)

oups je corrige

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZkmbgAjrz4

[Invité]

source

[Invité]

variante du Lazar ou Lazar BVT-SR-8808-MRAP

désolé pour la qualité

AA

canon d'~ 155 mm de type dana

[debonneguerre]

Pouh, un de plus! ya la clim là-dedans? doit faire chaud avec toutes ces fenêtres.

Franchement pas fonctionnel tous ces postes individuels, ca fait pas un véhicule polyvalent.

Plus je le regarde plus il me fait penser à un blindé de maintien de l'ordre, combat urbain cest sur, des kalach qui sortent de partout genre canonnière petits calibres.

A suivre.

[Shuggart]

Il est magnifique (extérieurement)

Je lui trouve une tête de serpent.

Mais quand on est à la place du chauffeur on se croirait dans un bon vieux ZIL avec les commodos et le changement de vitesse  :lol:

[Berkut]

C'est pas bien de se moquer mais bon, c'est pas faux en fait :lol: