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Rafale and other european jets [English only]


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You are exposing here all Indian dreams! but you forget that time is slower in India than in the rest of the world. If you still buy foreign equipments it's because when you buy an Equipment you buy both Equipment and time.

inducting more number of SU30mki upgrade would take less time as we have already an assembly line .

 

but Make in India rafale would be a facepalm of time  for us .

 

rather intially i was happy if france had delivered rafale from it's own factory .It would fasten the delivery of rafale jets but now 

Make in iNDIA rafale i can bet you even with  my last penny  if i have at the end , is that it would take more time & surely would 

delay the induction of rafale jet further no matter how much they try.

 

But after all MODI 's reputation  at stake & intense lobby of IAF , the deal might get thru .

 

but you never know in india anything can happen

 

CHEERS

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rafale Acquisition on Track, Lights Green For Final Stretch: Sources
All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: September 01, 2015 22:08 IST

rafale-fighter-jet_650x400_61441122340.j
The 36 off-the-shelf Rafale fighter jets will cost exchequer $8 to $9 billion.

NEW DELHI: The Narendra Modi government appears to be going ahead with the off-the shelf purchase of 36 Rafale fighters, which the Indian Air Force needs urgently. In the clearest indication of the government's intention so far, the Defence Acquisition Committee has asked the Defence Ministry negotiating team to proceed with end-stage negotiations, sources told NDTV.

Unofficial estimates indicate the deal for 36 jets could cost the exchequer $8 to $9 billion.

The move comes five months after Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced India's intention to acquire 36 Rafale fighters in an off-the-shelf deal with the government of France -- a deal he expected to conclude within a month or two.


Today's developments are a clear indicator that hurdles which existed towards the acquisition of the Rafale have now likely been removed. These were linked to India's mandatory offset requirements, under which 50% of the total value of the Rafale deal would need to be ploughed back into Indian industry.

Sources indicate that French negotiators had told the government that the process would substantially delay the acquisition of the fighters. 

NDTV has learnt that the French government may now have indicated to the government of India its willingness to set up a third line to manufacture Rafale fighters in future. This, the French argue, will go towards meeting its mandatory offset requirements in the deal in the future. 

NDTV has also learnt that the French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian was expected to be in New Delhi today. But he has delayed his visit to this country, pending the progress on the Rafale deal, on the advice of the Government of India.

The Indian Air Force requires the Rafale fighters to fulfill a long pending requirement to step up its squadron strength, which has been depleted over the years by having to retire older generation aircraft.

The IAF also believes that the Rafale gives it a capability to strike ground targets and air targets in complex futuristic battles. 

The government's decision to acquire 36 Rafale came after it scrapped the Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft tender to acquire 126 fighters, most of which were to be built in India by Hindustan Aeronautics. 

With differences over transfer of technology and overall cost issues continuing for years, the government decided to proceed with a smaller direct purchase from France -- something that may now be officially announced very soon barring any eleventh-hour setback.
Story First Published: September 01, 2015 22:05 IST
Rafale Acquisition on Track, Lights Green For Final Stretch: Sources

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Comment ça une troisième ligne ? Et puis de fabrication ou d'assemblage ?

Ceci dit, ça ne m'étonnerait pas que les indiens récupèrent la chaine quand Dassault aura fini sa prod, et le fait que Trappier passe la prod à 3/mois pourrait rapprocher l'échéance, surtout si le SCAF est lancé entre temps.

 

What kind of BS is this 3rd "manufacturing" line story ? We've yet to hear about a 2nd one... What's more would it be an assembly line or a full fledged production line ?

This being said, I wouldn't be surprised if the current production line was transferred to india at the end of Dassault's production run. Given the fact that Trappier is willing to ramp up the production rate to 3 planes a month, it could come quickly, furthermore if the SCAF project takes shape in the meantime.

Edited by Darkjmfr
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Rafale Acquisition on Track, Lights Green For Final Stretch: Sources
All India | Written by Vishnu Som | Updated: September 01, 2015 22:08 IST
Rafale Acquisition on Track, Lights Green For Final Stretch: Sources

He Dr Somnath999 we don't have access to Indian defence forum since several days now! do you have access from India? Thanks for your reply.

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  • 1 year later...

 

 

AIRBUS WORKING ON NEW FIGHTER DESIGN

AIRBUS DEFENCE AND Space has
revealed some details of its plans to
develop a next-generation European
ghter. The company has con rmed
that it is engaged in pre-design studies
for what it calls the Next Generation
Weapons System (NGWS), including
talks with European governments.
The manned NGWS is planned to
combine the attributes of manned
and unmanned aircraft and to work in
combination with ‘swarming’ drones.
Airbus expects France and Germany
to take the lead in the program, with
a view to potential service entry
between 2035 and 2040. The company
says that detailed design studies could
begin next year, followed by a decision
on the new platform in the next two to
three years.
Depending on the outcome of the
United Kingdom’s Brexit decision,
the country could also join the
NGWS program after preliminary
studies with France. Germany, Spain,
and France/UK are all currently
involved in di erent future combat
aircraft projects named as the Future
Combat Air Study (FCAS), although
the Franco-British e ort is a longerterm
e ort focused on unmanned
technologies.
In related news, France and
Germany have agreed to jointly
develop a second-generation variant
of the Tiger/Tigre attack helicopter.
The plan was rea rmed during a
joint meeting between defense
ministers Jean-Yves Le Drian and
Ursula von der Leyen.

Source from combat aircraft monthly june 2017 pg 27

http://indiandefence.com/threads/rafales-mini-encyclopedia.15925/page-60#post-563553

Edited by DrSomnath999
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  • 2 years later...

Reviving this topic after it's been dead for 2 years like a necromancer!

In response to:

***

il y a 18 minutes, JohnCleese a dit :

I actually agree with most of what you've written. Although I believe the UK has the technical capabilities to develop an indigenous next generation plane,

I somewhat agree on this point too even if it may require a rather strong "surge" among the concerned industrial actors, especially in terms of know-how transmission from a generation of engineers and craftsmen ("companions" as we call them in France) to another. Totally doable though.
Dassault faces the same challenges and are recruiting en masse these days.

On a side note, if only you knew how I'd like to see something sharing the innate beauty of a Spitfire get out of british factories once again...

il y a 18 minutes, JohnCleese a dit :

I don't believe it has the financial capacity to go it alone; a co-development with Sweden and Italy/Japan would make it a much more serious proposition. 

Agreed again, with a grain of salt: if a strong political leadership pushes for it, the UK could probably achieve it alone.
What makes this doubtful is the fact there is already a stealth multirole in the forces. F-35+Typhoon, I'm okay with it, F-35+Taranis, same, but add a third type of aircraft and it may become unmanageable financially to support and upkeep such a fleet.

A strange stance indeed when looking at smaller countries having as many or more types of fighters in service, but these countries are solely clients, and don't developp anything on their own.

Which is why I believe another kind of purely national aircraft may have a much higher chance to find its spot within the forces. Hypersonic jet? Exo-atmospheric re-usable vehicle? Long range bomber? Expensive ideas, sure, but arguably as strategic as a stealth medium-sized multirole, and with the advantage of occupying a spot no other programme has taken yet. 

Lastly, I'm glad you did not include Turkey into the list of potential partners, as nobody can truly predict what is going to happen there regarding their current political stance.

 

il y a 18 minutes, JohnCleese a dit :

Your English is excellent, but I wouldn't use it too much on this forum - our friends are already getting a little agitated :wink:

Thank you, I appreciate it.

And about my fellow countrymen, I wouldn't worry about it. Although I'm pretty sure some of them must have gotten flashbacks of Monty Python and the Holy Grail... but in reverse...

I guess they'll just have to "mind their own business". :ph34r:

 
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  • 1 year later...

 

India's First French-Built Rafale Fighters Have Finally Arrived

Eight years after first being selected, the arrival of the Rafales couldn't come soon enough as China and Pakistan weight heavily on Indian minds.

BY JAMIE HUNTERJULY 30, 2020

THE WAR ZONE

 

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/35236/indias-first-french-built-rafale-fighters-have-finally-arrived

Edited by DrSomnath999
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@DrSomnath999: something went wrong with the copy/paste, some of the list items are repeated a lot of times. The one starting with "The Rafales are joining No. 17 Squadron “Golden Arrows” Squadron at Ambala." is there 11 times, the next one is there 9 times (and only the last one is complete, the first 8 lack the end of the sentence); then the one with the FSO is there 3 times and again only the third is complete... The mention of Abhinandan in his Bison is also severely glitched. In the MMRCA retrospective, the text after the MiG-21 link  is repeated a lot of time. And so on.

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Just now, Kelkin said:

@DrSomnath999: something went wrong with the copy/paste, some of the list items are repeated a lot of times. The one starting with "The Rafales are joining No. 17 Squadron “Golden Arrows” Squadron at Ambala." is there 11 times, the next one is there 9 times (and only the last one is complete, the first 8 lack the end of the sentence); then the one with the FSO is there 3 times and again only the third is complete... The mention of Abhinandan in his Bison is also severely glitched. In the MMRCA retrospective, the text after the MiG-21 link  is repeated a lot of time. And so on.

i have edited it  

go the link and read

 

 

CHEERS

spacer.png

 

From airforce monthly april 2020

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Le 16/06/2019 à 12:03, Rufus Shinra a dit :

Either you know Monty Python or your father smells of elderberries and your mother was a hamster.

Puthym et mon @Rufus Shinra qu’est-ce qu’il lui arrive ? :huh:

Pas connecté depuis le 23 juin :pleurec:

Oh sorry. 

What the fuck's become of my @Rufus Shinra ? :huh: 

Not logged in since June 23rd :pleurec:

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il y a 25 minutes, DrSomnath999 a dit :

Guys in this thread  atleast please post in english as this thread is exclusively for english 

 

 

CHEERS

Don't worry to much. Often in this forum things are going here and elsewhere when this isn't serious.

Edited by herciv
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Rafales Can Give Big Advantage In Tibet In Aerial Combat: Ex-Air Force Chief
Mr Dhanoa, known as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said the Rafale jets along with S-400 missile systems will give the Indian Air Force a major combat edge in the entire region.



New Delhi:

The Rafale aircraft will give India a strategic advantage in case of any aerial combat with China in the mountainous Tibet region as the fleet will be able to use the terrain to its advantage, destroy enemy air defence and incapacitate the surface-to-air missiles, former Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal (retd) BS Dhanoa said on Sunday.

Mr Dhanoa, known as the architect of the Balakot strikes, said the Rafale jets along with S-400 missile systems will give the Indian Air Force a major combat edge in the entire region and that India's adversaries will think twice before starting a war.

In case of Pakistan, he said the purpose of the S-400 and Rafale is to hit Pakistani aircraft inside Pakistani air space and not when they come inside Indian territory, adding the neighbouring country would not have responded on February 27 last year to the Balakot air strikes if India had the French-manufactured jets then.

In an interview to PTI, Mr Dhanoa said the Rafale, with its fantastic electronic warfare suite and maneuverability, will be able use mountainous terrain in Tibet to its advantage and blind the enemy before India's strike aircraft penetrate hostile airspace to carry out their missions
.
The former Chief of Air Staff also said that the Rafales being supplied to the IAF are much more advanced than the ones being used by the French Air Force as India had asked for something "more" due to requirement to operate in unique conditions like operations from Leh.

Five Rafale jets out of 36 arrived India last week at a time India is in the midst of a bitter border row with China in the high altitude eastern Ladakh region.

"Rafale has got a fantastic Electronic Warfare (EW) suite (SPECTRA), fantastic weapons and therefore are capable of protecting themselves electronically besides being able to use the terrain to their advantage," Mr Dhanoa said.

"So they (Rafales) can play an important role in doing DEAD (Destruction of Enemy Air Defence) on the Surface-to-Air Missiles that the Chinese have put on Tibet.


"Once you take out those surface to air missiles then other aircraft like Su30, Jaguars, even Mig 21s can go out and drop the bombs on the Chinese forces. The strike aircraft carrying bombs can put tonnes and tonnes of bombs on the enemy troops, freely carrying out their mission. But if you do not do DEAD then you will suffer a lot of casualties," he said.

The leading air forces globally carry out Suppression of Enemy Air Defence (SEAD) or DEAD using their top of the line aircraft or weapons before launching any major operation in hostile territories.

"Against China there are big Himalayan mountains in between us which create serious line of sight issues. You can put a missile with a range of 300-400 kms on the ground in Tibet or in India. But it will only work within the line of sight," he said.

He said the Rafales, with terrain following capability, will give India a major capability enhancement.

"In air combat, the first thing that is important is information dominance, you get information and deny the enemy the information. The key role the Rafales will play in Tibet is information dominance and in case of Pakistan, it is a major deterrent. Of course there will be other roles too," he said.

 

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/rafales-can-give-big-advantage-in-tibet-in-aerial-combat-ex-air-force-chief-2273005

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@DrSomnath999

This one is alsoo very interresting. Around 5:30.

 

il y a 11 minutes, DrSomnath999 a dit :

The former Chief of Air Staff also said that the Rafales being supplied to the IAF are much more advanced than the ones being used by the French Air Force as India had asked for something "more" due to requirement to operate in unique conditions like operations from Leh.

What does he mention ?

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france has been the pioneer in electronic warfare segment.It is due to france falcon 20 ecm  plane that pakistan airforce manage to shot MIG 21 down orelse it wont have happen.

Both sides have jets ,awacs but IAf didnt have any dedicated ew plane at that aerial engagement .

 

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CHEERS

.

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